Vegans

Question:

Hey, I’m a 50-something hippie and every time I get stoned I eat big fat STEAKS!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, > anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a > human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat > befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, > like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re > several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster > than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I > mean…" > She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of > humor. > Beats me, > Lars > That’s a good one. > We have one at work (of course, she’s also a 50-something hippie). I > keep telling her the veggie dishes she orders at the local Chinese > joints are stir-fried in lard. Which they are. > They are so much fun. > Ask the next one about the reverse ion flow coupling balance in the main > drive unit. > "Oh, I guess you’re not in Engineering." > John

Response:

> Hey, I’m a 50-something hippie and every time I get stoned I eat big fat > STEAKS!

"Every time somebody eats a steak, a hippie’s Hack-Sack falls into the sewer." - Patton Oswalt

Response:

Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I mean…" She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of humor. Beats me, Lars

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, > anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a > human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat > befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, > like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re > several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster > than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I > mean…" > She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of > humor. > Beats me, > Lars

That’s a good one. We have one at work (of course, she’s also a 50-something hippie). I keep telling her the veggie dishes she orders at the local Chinese joints are stir-fried in lard. Which they are. They are so much fun. Ask the next one about the reverse ion flow coupling balance in the main drive unit. "Oh, I guess you’re not in Engineering." John

Response:

> Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, > anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a > human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat > befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, > like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re > several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster > than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I > mean…" > She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of > humor.

Ask her this – if animals weren’t intended to be eaten then why are they made of meat?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, >> anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a >> human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat >> befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, >> like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re >> several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster >> than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I >> mean…" >> She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of >> humor. >Ask her this – if animals weren’t intended to be eaten then why are they >made of meat? > It’s possible to be a Vegan and a meat-eater at the same time… > Claude

Being a vegan has nothing to do with your polesmoking Claudel.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, > anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a > human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat > befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, > like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re > several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster > than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I > mean…" > She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of > humor. >Ask her this – if animals weren’t intended to be eaten then why are they >made of meat?

It’s possible to be a Vegan and a meat-eater at the same time… Claude

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, > >> anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a > >> human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat > >> befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, > >> like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re > >> several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster > >> than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I > >> mean…" > >> She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of > >> humor. > >Ask her this – if animals weren’t intended to be eaten then why are they > >made of meat? > It’s possible to be a Vegan and a meat-eater at the same time… > Claude >Being a vegan has nothing to do with your polesmoking Claudel.

Gee. It’s Mulay lite. All the quality of thought with half the wit and originality. Claude

Response:

Well, *THAT* knowledge on your part years ago could’ve saved the local Cub Scout Dens in Santa Cruz! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s possible to be a Virgin and a meat-beater at the same time… > Claude Lucas

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Being a vegan has nothing to do with your polesmoking Claudel.

Response:

Why thank you Claude! Happy Thanksgiving. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Gee. It’s Mulay lite. > All the quality of thought with half the wit and originality. > Claude

Response:

>Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, >anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a >human! And how did you crack the light barrier?" She looked somewhat >befuddled, and said, "What?", so I said, "Well, the Vega System is, >like, 25 lightyears from the constellation Lyra. So unless you’re >several hundred million years old, you must have gotten here faster >than light. How did you manage it? Technologically speaking, I >mean…" >She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of >humor.

Their brain drys out due to lack of amino acids and lipid lubrication, and then it falls off the little pedestal it is on… becoming disconnected and usually making them pretty moody… Just think if everyone became a vegan – we would have to kill off a few billion cattle, pigs, chickens, sheep etc etc. All farm animals would become extinct. How cruel they are…

Response:

So….you’re saying…AGA Neocons are ….VEGANS? *EUREEKA!* Bob, you’re ON to something there!!! They’ve been hunting eggplant with automatic weapons too!…My Gawd— is _that_ why Doug appears to be "falling off the little pedestal he was never on" ? Holy Mary Mother of GOD…IT’S LADIES NIGHT!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Their brain drys out due to lack of amino acids and lipid lubrication, and then > it falls off the little pedestal it is on… becoming disconnected and usually > making them pretty moody…

Response:

I worked with a Vegan. When she would tell someone she was a vegan, if they looked blank, she’d smile this scary smile and say, YOu know, from vega? Light years off in space?" The only time she didn’t have a since of humor was when a restaurant would tell her they had vegan food and didn’t, or they meant she should order a vegetable plate (choices: corn, green beans, mashed potatoes). —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= East/West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Do you know what a Vegan is? This girl (well, she looked like one, >anyway) said she was a Vegan. I said, "Wow, you look exactly like a >human! And how did you crack the light barrier?"… >She got pretty mad. I guess the Vegans don’t have much of a sense of >humor. > I worked with a Vegan. When she would tell > someone she was a vegan, if they looked blank, > she’d smile this scary smile and say, YOu know, > from vega? Light years off in space?" > The only time she didn’t have a since of humor > was when a restaurant would tell her they had > vegan food and didn’t, or they meant she should > order a vegetable plate (choices: corn, green > beans, mashed potatoes). > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= East/West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

That’s a rare Vegan you know. Most of em are predictable attention-seeking, whining liberal nitwits who wish to impose their beliefs on everyone else, and stop at nothing to tell how immoral eating meat and wearing fur, etc, is. I met one who was cool once at a business conference. He went drinking/eating with a group of us at night. He made it clear he was a vegan, but he was smart enough to not step onto his pedestal and give us the guilt speech for eating steaks and burgers and wearing leather shoes. He, of course, was a consultant there solely to drum up business leads, so he had no choice but to keep his trap shut with the diatribe. Apparently he married one of those vegan wack-wacks, so maybe he was cool even when not trying to be….

Response:

It’s like religion and politics Mark. What people eat or drink is no one’s business but thier own. Same with who they vote for, who they have sex with, what diety quietly brings them to contemplate matters of spirituality, who moves them musically, etc. The cowardly internet snipe game exists to enable stupid behavior. Mea culpa, but it’s *all* in the name of black humor. Regards, mvm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That’s a rare Vegan you know. > Most of em are predictable attention-seeking, whining liberal nitwits > who wish to impose their beliefs on everyone else, and stop at nothing > to tell how immoral eating meat and wearing fur, etc, is. > I met one who was cool once at a business conference. He went > drinking/eating with a group of us at night. He made it clear he was a > vegan, but he was smart enough to not step onto his pedestal and give us > the guilt speech for eating steaks and burgers and wearing leather > shoes. He, of course, was a consultant there solely to drum up business > leads, so he had no choice but to keep his trap shut with the diatribe. > Apparently he married one of those vegan wack-wacks, so maybe he was > cool even when not trying to be….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s like religion and politics Mark. What people eat or drink is no > one’s business but > thier own. Same with who they vote for, who they have sex with, what > diety quietly > brings them to contemplate matters of spirituality, who moves them > musically, etc. > The cowardly internet snipe game exists to enable stupid behavior. Mea > culpa, but > it’s *all* in the name of black humor. > Regards, > mvm > That’s a rare Vegan you know. > Most of em are predictable attention-seeking, whining liberal nitwits > who wish to impose their beliefs on everyone else, and stop at nothing > to tell how immoral eating meat and wearing fur, etc, is. > I met one who was cool once at a business conference. He went > drinking/eating with a group of us at night. He made it clear he was a > vegan, but he was smart enough to not step onto his pedestal and give > us the guilt speech for eating steaks and burgers and wearing leather > shoes. He, of course, was a consultant there solely to drum up > business leads, so he had no choice but to keep his trap shut with the > diatribe. Apparently he married one of those vegan wack-wacks, so > maybe he was cool even when not trying to be….

Unless nobody laughs.

Response:

> That’s a rare Vegan you know. > Most of em are predictable attention-seeking, whining liberal nitwits > who wish to impose their beliefs on everyone else, and stop at nothing > to tell how immoral eating meat and wearing fur, etc, is.

I’ve only run into a couple of those. Most of the ones I know will let you know what they believe, but that’s about it. Diana, though, was a a gem. She could get really radical, but she was never abusive or harrassing. Not many people can pull it off, no matter what they believe. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= East/West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

>So….you’re saying…AGA Neocons are ….VEGANS?

I learned to drive in a Chevy Vega… >*EUREEKA!* Bob, you’re ON to something there!!! >They’ve been hunting eggplant with automatic weapons too!…My Gawd— >is _that_ why Doug appears to be "falling off the little pedestal he was >never on" ? >Holy Mary Mother of GOD…IT’S LADIES NIGHT!!!!

http://www.canada.com/health/story.html?id=12ff68fd-087b-437e-9fbf-53…

Response:

> It’s like religion and politics Mark. What people eat or drink is no > one’s business but > thier own. Same with who they vote for, who they have sex with, what > diety quietly > brings them to contemplate matters of spirituality, who moves them > musically, etc. > The cowardly internet snipe game exists to enable stupid behavior. Mea > culpa, but > it’s *all* in the name of black humor.

Sure. Anyone who wants to be a "vegan" or "vegetarian" or whatever trendy, hippy thing they want to do, that’s fine with me. Just so long as they don’t get on their high-horse and try to convert everyone else. That’s the difference. There are very few "vegans" who live and let live (no pun intended).

Response:

I find it interesting, while Vegans don’t eat meat, milk, eggs, etc, they make substitutes for all these evils. They detest these things, but cannot live without them. In any "health" shop (aka Hippy Barn), you can buy "just like meat", "just like milk", "just like cheese", "just like eggs", etc, products, but the taste, smell and texture of these is nothing remotely similar to the real thing. Not even close. If they want "just like", why not just give in and have "really is". As in, "this really is animal grease dripping down my chin from my double-whooper with

Response:

True. I guess my point was, the whole evangilism bit’s not exclusive to them—unfortunately. > It’s like religion and politics Mark. What people eat or drink is no > one’s business but thier own. Same with who they vote for, who they have sex with, what > diety quietly brings them to contemplate matters of spirituality, who moves them > musically, etc. The cowardly internet snipe game exists to enable stupid behavior. Mea > culpa, but it’s *all* in the name of black humor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sure. Anyone who wants to be a "vegan" or "vegetarian" or whatever > trendy, hippy thing they want to do, that’s fine with me. Just so long > as they don’t get on their high-horse and try to convert everyone else. > That’s the difference. There are very few "vegans" who live and let live > (no pun intended).

Response:

My first was a VW Bug…*then* the dreaded Chevy Vega:-). The experience launched my ass STRAIGHT into a ‘69 Camaro 327. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->So….you’re saying…AGA Neocons are ….VEGANS? > I learned to drive in a Chevy Vega… >*EUREEKA!* Bob, you’re ON to something there!!! >They’ve been hunting eggplant with automatic weapons too!…My Gawd— >is _that_ why Doug appears to be "falling off the little pedestal he was >never on" ? >Holy Mary Mother of GOD…IT’S LADIES NIGHT!!!! > http://www.canada.com/health/story.html?id=12ff68fd-087b-437e-9fbf-53…

Response:

It takes an intelligent and advanced individual to laugh when the jokes on them. Sorry for your plight in life :-(.

> Unless nobody laughs. > It’s like religion and politics Mark. What people eat or drink is no > one’s business but thier own. Same with who they vote for, who they have sex with, what > diety quietly brings them to contemplate matters of spirituality, who moves them > musically, etc. The cowardly internet snipe game exists to enable stupid behavior. Mea > culpa, but it’s *all* in the name of black humor. > Regards, > mvm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> That’s a rare Vegan you know. >> Most of em are predictable attention-seeking, whining liberal nitwits >> who wish to impose their beliefs on everyone else, and stop at >> nothing to tell how immoral eating meat and wearing fur, etc, is. >> I met one who was cool once at a business conference. He went >> drinking/eating with a group of us at night. He made it clear he was >> a vegan, but he was smart enough to not step onto his pedestal and >> give us the guilt speech for eating steaks and burgers and wearing >> leather shoes. He, of course, was a consultant there solely to drum >> up business leads, so he had no choice but to keep his trap shut with >> the diatribe. Apparently he married one of those vegan wack-wacks, so >> maybe he was cool even when not trying to be….

Response:

>My first was a VW Bug…*then* the dreaded Chevy Vega:-). The experience >launched my ass >STRAIGHT into a ‘69 Camaro 327.

My brother had a beetle… piece of shit!! Not my style, I had a 68 Malibu with a Hurst 4 speed…. Chevys’ were so cool back then!

Response:

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In: Canada Hunting

- It's Your Morals, Stupid!!!

Question:

> I wipe my ass with your morals Mr. Bush!!!

You wipe donkeys?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rise of moral issues produces a shift right beyond the Democrats > By David Usborne in Fort Lauderdale > Call it the anti-Janet Jackson boob vote, if you like. The pro-gun > vote, the anti-gay marriage vote or the Jesus vote. > For all the strategising in both parties on which of the key popular > concerns was most likely to win the election for their candidate – > would it be Iraq, terrorism or matters of the wallet? – it may have > been none of the above that will end up driving the final result. The > trump card appears to have been moral issues. > When they look back at Election 2004, political historians will see > one trend above all others and it clearly worked in favour of George > Bush and against John Kerry. Voters, especially those in the heartland > states, took moral values as their core standard in deciding which > candidate to support. > Indeed, this may emerge as the most surprising finding to emerge. Even > if it meant voting against their more obvious economic interests and > even when they harboured misgivings on Iraq, voters everywhere found > themselves guided by moral issues first. Family values means less > about food on the table than about God at the table. > And as these questions come to the fore, so the country appears to > have shifted culturally to the right. Strikingly, ballot initiatives > to ban marriage for same-sex couples were before voters in 11 states – > and they passed in all of them. In some, even existing domestic > partnership rights will now be taken away. Perhaps the country was > always thus, but either way it will give Democrats grave reason to > worry. Their man was a Catholic, a war hero and yet he still failed to > connect with the country’s conservative mainstream. Can a candidate > with remotely socially liberal positions win in America again? > For evidence of what happened, you need look no further than > exit-polling numbers. Most surprisingly, a Los Angeles Times national > survey found that more than half of voters for Mr Bush cited moral > issues as the principal reason for their support. They were more > important to his supporters even than terrorism. > And then look at what was in the heads of Kerry supporters. They cited > the economy as their top concern over moral issues by a margin of > about two to one. Another survey taken in the three most important > battleground states found that moral issues were first on the agenda > of Bush voters in Ohio and were almost their top concern in Florida > and Pennsylvania, coming second only to terrorism. > The political polarisation of America is thus also a cultural one. And > deepening that division are matters of religious affiliation and > degrees of religious zeal. About one-fifth of voters describe > themselves as born-again Christians and on Tuesday they voted > enthusiastically for Mr Bush as "one of them", by a margin of roughly > four to one. Among regular church-goers Mr Bush was the winner > handily. Mr Kerry fared better with occasional worshippers. > It is part of what appears to have lost Florida for Mr Kerry. The > incumbent took more than half of the Protestant and Catholic vote in > the state – and about eight in 10 Floridians belong to one of those > religions. "As a Christian, Bush upholds the morals and values that I > believe the constitution was built on," explained one voter, Brett > Williamson, a 20-year-old student in Tallahassee. > "I believe in many of the same values as he does – against same-sex > marriage, and not taking God out of the constitution," echoed Chris > Pierson, a nurse, in the Orlando area. > For decades, the Democratic Party depended on inner-city churches, > many of them Baptist with mostly black congregations, to bring out > crucial chunks of support on election day. Now the Church factor has > become powerful for Republicans instead. Around the country, they were > a crucial force in encouraging Bush voters to register and to vote. > Mr Kerry’s big mistake? Maybe that he simply couldn’t shake the > liberal label Mr Bush plastered on him. "Kerry came across as more > liberal than Gore," argues Eric Buermann, chief lawyer for the > Republicans in Miami. "It didn’t appeal to middle-of-the road voters." > If perceived liberalism is a handicap in Florida, it seems to be > poison in the heartland states. And that is where the Democrats will > have to do some serious thinking. "On values," remarked Nebraska’s > governor, Mike Johanns, "they are really non-competitive in the > heartland." > Mr Kerry went goose hunting. He withheld offering support for gay > marriage. He talked tough on defence and the military. But still it > was not enough. He could cite economic statistics till the cows came > home. But where there are cows in America, there are fewer and fewer > Democrats. > http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=579264

I wipe my ass with your morals Mr. Bush!!!

Response:

Rise of moral issues produces a shift right beyond the Democrats By David Usborne in Fort Lauderdale Call it the anti-Janet Jackson boob vote, if you like. The pro-gun vote, the anti-gay marriage vote or the Jesus vote. For all the strategising in both parties on which of the key popular concerns was most likely to win the election for their candidate – would it be Iraq, terrorism or matters of the wallet? – it may have been none of the above that will end up driving the final result. The trump card appears to have been moral issues. When they look back at Election 2004, political historians will see one trend above all others and it clearly worked in favour of George Bush and against John Kerry. Voters, especially those in the heartland states, took moral values as their core standard in deciding which candidate to support. Indeed, this may emerge as the most surprising finding to emerge. Even if it meant voting against their more obvious economic interests and even when they harboured misgivings on Iraq, voters everywhere found themselves guided by moral issues first. Family values means less about food on the table than about God at the table. And as these questions come to the fore, so the country appears to have shifted culturally to the right. Strikingly, ballot initiatives to ban marriage for same-sex couples were before voters in 11 states – and they passed in all of them. In some, even existing domestic partnership rights will now be taken away. Perhaps the country was always thus, but either way it will give Democrats grave reason to worry. Their man was a Catholic, a war hero and yet he still failed to connect with the country’s conservative mainstream. Can a candidate with remotely socially liberal positions win in America again? For evidence of what happened, you need look no further than exit-polling numbers. Most surprisingly, a Los Angeles Times national survey found that more than half of voters for Mr Bush cited moral issues as the principal reason for their support. They were more important to his supporters even than terrorism. And then look at what was in the heads of Kerry supporters. They cited the economy as their top concern over moral issues by a margin of about two to one. Another survey taken in the three most important battleground states found that moral issues were first on the agenda of Bush voters in Ohio and were almost their top concern in Florida and Pennsylvania, coming second only to terrorism. The political polarisation of America is thus also a cultural one. And deepening that division are matters of religious affiliation and degrees of religious zeal. About one-fifth of voters describe themselves as born-again Christians and on Tuesday they voted enthusiastically for Mr Bush as "one of them", by a margin of roughly four to one. Among regular church-goers Mr Bush was the winner handily. Mr Kerry fared better with occasional worshippers. It is part of what appears to have lost Florida for Mr Kerry. The incumbent took more than half of the Protestant and Catholic vote in the state – and about eight in 10 Floridians belong to one of those religions. "As a Christian, Bush upholds the morals and values that I believe the constitution was built on," explained one voter, Brett Williamson, a 20-year-old student in Tallahassee. "I believe in many of the same values as he does – against same-sex marriage, and not taking God out of the constitution," echoed Chris Pierson, a nurse, in the Orlando area. For decades, the Democratic Party depended on inner-city churches, many of them Baptist with mostly black congregations, to bring out crucial chunks of support on election day. Now the Church factor has become powerful for Republicans instead. Around the country, they were a crucial force in encouraging Bush voters to register and to vote. Mr Kerry’s big mistake? Maybe that he simply couldn’t shake the liberal label Mr Bush plastered on him. "Kerry came across as more liberal than Gore," argues Eric Buermann, chief lawyer for the Republicans in Miami. "It didn’t appeal to middle-of-the road voters." If perceived liberalism is a handicap in Florida, it seems to be poison in the heartland states. And that is where the Democrats will have to do some serious thinking. "On values," remarked Nebraska’s governor, Mike Johanns, "they are really non-competitive in the heartland." Mr Kerry went goose hunting. He withheld offering support for gay marriage. He talked tough on defence and the military. But still it was not enough. He could cite economic statistics till the cows came home. But where there are cows in America, there are fewer and fewer Democrats. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=579264

Response:

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In: Goose Hunting

It's Your Morals, Stupid!!

Question:

For once I would like to see a guy flash his thing on tv. Why is it always the women and their fake boobs???

Response:

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In: Goose Hunting

Dept. Of Righteous Shootings #83

Question:

I love this story. Guy gets angry that another guy had an affair with his wife. So far, no big deal — most men get pissed off by that. However, this particular cuckold decided to go a little further in venting his displeasure: by invading Lover Boy’s house, spraying him (and his 7-year-old daughter) with pepper spray, and (by dint of his having a stun gun, handcuffs and rope with him) no doubt wishing to inflict further harm. Whereupon Lover Boy managed to get hold of his gun, and shot Mr. Cuckold dead. Nothing to see here, move along. Which is kinda what the police in Powdersville, South Carolina are saying, as indeed they should. Unlike our cousins in Britain, the people of South Carolina have very clear views on what should happen to an asshole if he invades someone else’s property with the intent to cause harm and mischief. Dead goblin count: 83 http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/news/3851469/detail.html http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P4956 — Greg

Response:

For every "Righteous Shooting", *how* *many* Wrongful Shootings and Suicides occur in America every single day? Fuck the NRA. > I love this story. > Guy gets angry ….

> = Stupid. = Redundant. Here comes the sword! CHOP! Spurt….quiver, convulse.

Response:

> Unlike our cousins in Britain, the people of South Carolina have very > clear views on what should happen to an asshole if he invades someone > else’s property with the intent to cause harm and mischief.

So how could he have done it better? Should he have tricked lover boy into coming around to his own house somehow?

Response:

This is neocon Standard Operating Procedure, revealed;

> Should he have tricked lover boy into coming around to his own house somehow?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Guy gets angry that another guy had an affair with his wife. So far, no >big deal — most men get pissed off by that. >However, this particular cuckold decided to go a little further in >venting his displeasure: by invading Lover Boy’s house, spraying him (and >his 7-year-old daughter) with pepper spray, and (by dint of his having a >stun gun, handcuffs and rope with him) no doubt wishing to inflict further >harm. >Whereupon Lover Boy managed to get hold of his gun, and shot Mr. Cuckold >dead. >Nothing to see here, move along. >Which is kinda what the police in Powdersville, South Carolina are saying, >as indeed they should. >Unlike our cousins in Britain, the people of South Carolina have very >clear views on what should happen to an asshole if he invades someone >else’s property with the intent to cause harm and mischief.

As far as I know you can kill an intruder in your home in any state in America. As far as S.C. goes the only good thing to come from that state was Toy Caldwell

Response:

>So how could he have done it better? Should he have tricked lover boy into >coming around to his own house somehow?

Or maybe it was his wife that needed a little working over

Response:

> I love this story.

Too bad you don’t shoot yourself in the ass for being a sadistic retard.

Response:

Clearly, he did, and it caused a subdural hematoma. Need > .25 cal. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I love this story. > Too bad you don’t shoot yourself in the ass for being a sadistic retard.

Response:

> So how could he have done it better? Should he have tricked lover boy into > coming around to his own house somehow?

No. It couldn’t possibly be better. — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org

Response:

> For every "Righteous Shooting", *how* *many* Wrongful Shootings and > Suicides occur in America every single day?

Fewer and fewer. More guns, less crime. Support concealed carry. — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org

Response:

>> For every "Righteous Shooting", *how* *many* Wrongful Shootings and > Suicides occur in America every single day? > Fewer and fewer. > More guns, less crime. > Support concealed carry.

When I was a kid, growing up in the late ’50s, "all my heroes were cowboys." Every kid watched cowboy shows on TV, and we all had a pair of toy six-guns. Pow! Shoot the bad guy! Pow! Shoot the Indians! Pow! Shoot the cougar! Pow! shoot the bear! Pow! Shoot the chickenhawk! Pow! Pow! Pow! Shoot ‘em all! I’m gonna be a cowboy when I grow up, and be a hero, just like on TV! Thank God I grew out of that. Not everybody did. Guns are supposed to be The Great Equalizer. If you’re a small person, and have a gun, big, bad people can’t force their will on you, just because they are physically stronger. Hmmm. While I respect the right of people to protect themselves, does that mean everybody is safe if everybody carries a gun? Should our kids be allowed to "protect themselves," and carry guns at school? At what point do we allow people to protect themselves with a gun? High school? College? There’s no doubt that we have a lot more gun crime in this country, simply because we have more guns. And all the figures I’ve seen say that if you have a gun at the ready for home defense, you’re many times more likely to shoot a friend or family member than you are to shoot an actual "bad guy." Is there a practical way to have that gun at the ready, yet absolutely prevent one of your kids from getting to it? And, while it’s true that there are a bunch of different ways that a depressed person can commit suicide, a gun just makes it way too easy, and irrecoverably final. My ex-wife used to have a job where she had to drive into some really bad parts of Miami, was worried about getting held up with a gun at a stoplight, and was considering getting a gun for under the seat. Now, in the event that someone did point a gun at her head, did I want her going for a gun? Mmmm… nope. Around the same time, I worked the cash register at a bookstore, and the owner kept a loaded .45 auto behind the counter. Now, it’s very important to understand that if an armed robber comes in to hold you up, you can shoot him to defend yourself, and your property, but you CAN’T shoot him in the back as he’s leaving. That’s murder. I think human beings in general are just a bit too emotional, a bit too impulsive, for everybody to be allowed to carry a device in their pocket that can drill a fatal hole through another human being in an instant. We are ALL just a bit too inclined to lose our cool, and do something we later wish we hadn’t. A lot of us haven’t "grown up" that much, and there’s no practical test, other than an already established criminal record (too late!), to determine who has or hasn’t. At some point, over a hundred years ago, somebody with a rational brain decided that they had to get the guns off the street in Dodge City, and we haven’t quite managed to do that yet, have we? There are situations where guns have their place, but police, courts, and prisons have their places, too. Not everything should be settled -Pow-! The Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us the right to bear arms. But did they have the foresight to anticipate Uzis and driveby shootings at malls? I believe they were thinking something more like… muzzleloaders. Single shot. For hunting. And hostile indians. And getting a militia together in a hurry if British ships were suddenly offloading redcoats. They did, in their wisdom, create a Constitution that could be amended, because they realized that they weren’t Eternal Gods, and that the document was not exactly the Eternal Word of God, either. "More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so. Zoid

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> For every "Righteous Shooting", *how* *many* Wrongful Shootings and >> Suicides occur in America every single day? > Fewer and fewer. > More guns, less crime. > Support concealed carry. > When I was a kid, growing up in the late ’50s, "all my heroes were cowboys." > Every kid watched cowboy shows on TV, and we all had a pair of toy six-guns. > Pow! Shoot the bad guy! Pow! Shoot the Indians! Pow! Shoot the cougar! Pow! > shoot the bear! Pow! Shoot the chickenhawk! Pow! Pow! Pow! Shoot ‘em all! > I’m gonna be a cowboy when I grow up, and be a hero, just like on TV! > Thank God I grew out of that. Not everybody did.

Thank God weirdos like you don’t carry. > Guns are supposed to be The Great Equalizer. If you’re a small person, and > have a gun, big, bad people can’t force their will on you, just because they > are physically stronger. Hmmm.

Hmmmm. Sounds right. > While I respect the right of people to protect themselves, does that mean > everybody is safe if everybody carries a gun?

"An armed society is a polite society." - Heinlein > Should our kids be allowed to > "protect themselves," and carry guns at school? At what point do we allow > people to protect themselves with a gun? High school? College?

Carrying a firearm is an adult privilege. Age 21 is fine. > There’s no doubt that we have a lot more gun crime in this country, simply > because we have more guns. And all the figures I’ve seen say that if you > have a gun at the ready for home defense, you’re many times more likely to > shoot a friend or family member than you are to shoot an actual "bad guy."

Bullshit. Those figures are bogus. > Is there a practical way to have that gun at the ready, yet absolutely > prevent one of your kids from getting to it?

Absolutely. Keep it in your pocket. > And, while it’s true that there > are a bunch of different ways that a depressed person can commit suicide, a > gun just makes it way too easy, and irrecoverably final.

Uh…but I thought you leftoids were *for* the "right to die." You have a problem with efficiency or something? > My ex-wife used to have a job where she had to drive into some really bad > parts of Miami, was worried about getting held up with a gun at a stoplight, > and was considering getting a gun for under the seat. Now, in the event that > someone did point a gun at her head, did I want her going for a gun? Mmmm… > nope.

Well, she’d have to be pretty stupid to make an agressive movewith a gun pointed at her head. But if she had it handy and she saw the bad guys approaching, SHE could point first. Avantage, good guys. Crime prevented. Happens all the time, but you *never* hear about it on the six o’clock news, because all the leftist media outlets care about is BAD news. They want blood and guts on the sidewalk, grieving relatives, etc. If a crime is *prevented*, who gives a shit? Nothing "newsworthy" happend, so why bother reporting it? And they don’t. Period. > Around the same time, I worked the cash register at a bookstore, and the > owner kept a loaded .45 auto behind the counter. Now, it’s very important to > understand that if an armed robber comes in to hold you up, you can shoot > him to defend yourself, and your property, but you CAN’T shoot him in the > back as he’s leaving. That’s murder. > I think human beings in general are just a bit too emotional, a bit too > impulsive, for everybody to be allowed to carry a device in their pocket > that can drill a fatal hole through another human being in an instant.

ROFLMBFAO! Better ban cars while you’re at it. And Bic lighters. Do we need to mention Swiss Army knives – "a device in their pocket that can drill a fatal hole through another human being in an instant"? Guess those better go away, too… > We are ALL just a bit too inclined to lose our cool, and do something we > later wish we hadn’t. A lot of us haven’t "grown up" that much, and there’s > no practical test, other than an already established criminal record (too > late!), to determine who has or hasn’t.

YOU may not have grown up. OK, no pistola for you, junior. Me, I pack. And my guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s driver’s license. They’ve also DETERRED crime – three times. No shots fired. Display and statement of intent to use were more than sufficient. > At some point, over a hundred years ago, somebody with a rational brain > decided that they had to get the guns off the street in Dodge City, and we > haven’t quite managed to do that yet, have we?

Thankfully, no. > There are situations where guns have their place, but police, courts, and > prisons have their places, too. Not everything should be settled -Pow-!

What makes you think that everyone who packs is running around looking for confrontations so they can drill somebody? Are you nuts or something? Damn, good thing you don’t carry. > The Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us the right to bear arms. But > did they have the foresight to anticipate Uzis and driveby shootings at > malls? I believe they were thinking something more like… muzzleloaders. > Single shot. For hunting. And hostile indians. And getting a militia > together in a hurry if British ships were suddenly offloading redcoats.

<sigh> Let’s see…WHO is doing the drive-by shootings at malls? Would that be law-abiding armed citizens, or…CRIMINALS? Hey, do you think if guns became illegal tonight that all the bad guys wouldn’t still have them tomorrow? How are things on planet Disney these days, anyway? > They did, in their wisdom, create a Constitution that could be amended, > because they realized that they weren’t Eternal Gods, and that the document > was not exactly the Eternal Word of God, either. > "More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so.

Check what happened to the crime rate in Florida whenthe shall issue laws went into effect. Check what happened to the home invasion statistics when Colorado passed the Make My Day law. Find out what happened in Oz when the populace foolishly allowed their government to disarm honest law-abiding citizens. Lastly – if you want my guns, you’ll have to come get ‘em. I don’t think you’ll try it. Why do you suppose that is? Lord Valve Armed

Response:

Excellent – "What LV said" Also, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16217 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> For every "Righteous Shooting", *how* *many* Wrongful Shootings and > >> Suicides occur in America every single day? > > Fewer and fewer. > > More guns, less crime. > > Support concealed carry. > When I was a kid, growing up in the late ’50s, "all my heroes were cowboys." > Every kid watched cowboy shows on TV, and we all had a pair of toy six-guns. > Pow! Shoot the bad guy! Pow! Shoot the Indians! Pow! Shoot the cougar! Pow! > shoot the bear! Pow! Shoot the chickenhawk! Pow! Pow! Pow! Shoot ‘em all! > I’m gonna be a cowboy when I grow up, and be a hero, just like on TV! > Thank God I grew out of that. Not everybody did. >Thank God weirdos like you don’t carry. > Guns are supposed to be The Great Equalizer. If you’re a small person, and > have a gun, big, bad people can’t force their will on you, just because they > are physically stronger. Hmmm. >Hmmmm. Sounds right. > While I respect the right of people to protect themselves, does that mean > everybody is safe if everybody carries a gun? >"An armed society is a polite society." - Heinlein > Should our kids be allowed to > "protect themselves," and carry guns at school? At what point do we allow > people to protect themselves with a gun? High school? College? >Carrying a firearm is an adult privilege. Age 21 is fine. > There’s no doubt that we have a lot more gun crime in this country, simply > because we have more guns. And all the figures I’ve seen say that if you > have a gun at the ready for home defense, you’re many times more likely to > shoot a friend or family member than you are to shoot an actual "bad guy." >Bullshit. Those figures are bogus. > Is there a practical way to have that gun at the ready, yet absolutely > prevent one of your kids from getting to it? >Absolutely. Keep it in your pocket. > And, while it’s true that there > are a bunch of different ways that a depressed person can commit suicide, a > gun just makes it way too easy, and irrecoverably final. >Uh…but I thought you leftoids were *for* the "right to die." >You have a problem with efficiency or something? > My ex-wife used to have a job where she had to drive into some really bad > parts of Miami, was worried about getting held up with a gun at a stoplight, > and was considering getting a gun for under the seat. Now, in the event that > someone did point a gun at her head, did I want her going for a gun? Mmmm… > nope. >Well, she’d have to be pretty stupid to make an agressive movewith a gun pointed >at her head. But if she had it handy and she >saw the bad guys approaching, SHE could point first. Avantage, >good guys. Crime prevented. Happens all the time, but you >*never* hear about it on the six o’clock news, because all the >leftist media outlets care about is BAD news. They want blood >and guts on the sidewalk, grieving relatives, etc. If a crime is >*prevented*, who gives a shit? Nothing "newsworthy" happend, >so why bother reporting it? And they don’t. Period. > Around the same time, I worked the cash register at a bookstore, and the > owner kept a loaded .45 auto behind the counter. Now, it’s very important to > understand that if an armed robber comes in to hold you up, you can shoot > him to defend yourself, and your property, but you CAN’T shoot him in the > back as he’s leaving. That’s murder. > I think human beings in general are just a bit too emotional, a bit too > impulsive, for everybody to be allowed to carry a device in their pocket > that can drill a fatal hole through another human being in an instant. >ROFLMBFAO! >Better ban cars while you’re at it. And Bic lighters. Do we need to >mention Swiss Army knives – "a device in their pocket that can drill >a fatal hole through another human being in an instant"? Guess those >better go away, too… > We are ALL just a bit too inclined to lose our cool, and do something we > later wish we hadn’t. A lot of us haven’t "grown up" that much, and there’s > no practical test, other than an already established criminal record (too > late!), to determine who has or hasn’t. >YOU may not have grown up. >OK, no pistola for you, junior. Me, I pack. And my guns >have killed less people than Ted Kennedy’s driver’s license. >They’ve also DETERRED crime – three times. No shots >fired. Display and statement of intent to use were more than >sufficient. > At some point, over a hundred years ago, somebody with a rational brain > decided that they had to get the guns off the street in Dodge City, and we > haven’t quite managed to do that yet, have we? >Thankfully, no. > There are situations where guns have their place, but police, courts, and > prisons have their places, too. Not everything should be settled -Pow-! >What makes you think that everyone who packs is running around looking for >confrontations so they can drill somebody? Are you >nuts or something? Damn, good thing you don’t carry. > The Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us the right to bear arms. But > did they have the foresight to anticipate Uzis and driveby shootings at > malls? I believe they were thinking something more like… muzzleloaders. > Single shot. For hunting. And hostile indians. And getting a militia > together in a hurry if British ships were suddenly offloading redcoats. ><sigh> >Let’s see…WHO is doing the drive-by shootings at malls? Would that >be law-abiding armed citizens, or…CRIMINALS? Hey, do you think if >guns became illegal tonight that all the bad guys wouldn’t still have them >tomorrow? How are things on planet Disney these days, anyway? > They did, in their wisdom, create a Constitution that could be amended, > because they realized that they weren’t Eternal Gods, and that the document > was not exactly the Eternal Word of God, either. > "More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so. >Check what happened to the crime rate in Florida whenthe shall issue laws went >into effect. Check what happened >to the home invasion statistics when Colorado passed the >Make My Day law. Find out what happened in Oz when the >populace foolishly allowed their government to disarm honest >law-abiding citizens. >Lastly – if you want my guns, you’ll have to come get ‘em. >I don’t think you’ll try it. Why do you suppose that is? >Lord Valve >Armed

Response:

> For every "Righteous Shooting", *how* *many* Wrongful Shootings and > Suicides occur in America every single day? Fuck the NRA.

Good point… a couple of crack dealers were shot dead just the other day… by OTHER crack dealers. Fortunatly, no innocents were injured. Is this a "wrongfull shooting"… ? ? ? F–ck the crackdealers… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I love this story. > Guy gets angry …. > > = Stupid. = Redundant. > Here comes the sword! > CHOP! Spurt….quiver, convulse.

Response:

> When I was a kid, growing up in the late ’50s, "all my heroes were > cowboys." > Every kid watched cowboy shows on TV, and we all had a pair of toy > six-guns.

We had them, too. They were crap. I much prefer my Kimber. > Pow! Shoot the bad guy! Pow! Shoot the Indians! Pow! Shoot the cougar! > Pow! > shoot the bear! Pow! Shoot the chickenhawk! Pow! Pow! Pow! Shoot ‘em all! > I’m gonna be a cowboy when I grow up, and be a hero, just like on TV!

I grew up to be a cowboy. I’m still an Indian. I’ve never shot anybody. Imagine that. > Thank God I grew out of that. Not everybody did.

I’m not sure God is responsible, but, to each his own. > Guns are supposed to be The Great Equalizer. If you’re a small person, and > have a gun, big, bad people can’t force their will on you, just because > they > are physically stronger. Hmmm.

Guns are tools. You don’t have to be small to prefer a firearm for self-defense, or any other purpose to which a firearm can be applied. > While I respect the right of people to protect themselves, does that mean > everybody is safe if everybody carries a gun? Should our kids be allowed > to > "protect themselves," and carry guns at school? At what point do we allow > people to protect themselves with a gun? High school? College?

Everybody is safer, if everybody safely carries a gun, yes. Kids are not responsible for themselves, so, no, they shouldn’t be allowed to carry guns at school. They should be allowed to carry a shotgun in the trunk of their car, so they can go bird hunting after class. They should be allowed to carry a .22 rifle, or a 30-30, or a pistol, so they can go to target practice, or deer hunting, or any other lawful pursuit. We should allow people to protect themselves with a gun when they reach the age at which society has determined that they are responsible for their actions. That’s 18, in most states, I believe. Heck, we give them the keys to the car, at 16, in most places, and they’re much more dangerous behind the wheel than behind the trigger. > There’s no doubt that we have a lot more gun crime in this country, simply > because we have more guns. And all the figures I’ve seen say that if you > have a gun at the ready for home defense, you’re many times more likely to > shoot a friend or family member than you are to shoot an actual "bad guy."

There is considerable doubt that we have more gun crime in this country. Every agency that measures gun crime reports that we have less gun crime, every year. I don’t know where you get your information, but you need to find updated sources. It’s possible that you could shoot a friend or family member. It’s also possible that a friend for family member could shoot you. However, with proper training, and some basic common sense, you’ll learn to identify your target before pulling the trigger. It’s not the gun’s fault if you don’t, and it’s certainly not my fault. Sometimes, too, the friend or family member is the "bad guy". Owning and using a firearm requires that you exercise personal responsibility. There is no substitute. > Is there a practical way to have that gun at the ready, yet absolutely > prevent one of your kids from getting to it? And, while it’s true that > there > are a bunch of different ways that a depressed person can commit suicide, > a > gun just makes it way too easy, and irrecoverably final.

Of course, there are several practical ways to keep your gun at the ready without risking access by children. In fact, it’s your responsibility as a gun owner to ensure that your guns are not made available to children. Suicide is not easy, no matter how a person goes about it. Guns don’t make it any easier than sleeping pills, ropes, bridges, or exhaust fumes. I did some basic research, and it appears that drugs and plastic bags are more likely to be used to commit suicide than guns. > My ex-wife used to have a job where she had to drive into some really bad > parts of Miami, was worried about getting held up with a gun at a > stoplight, > and was considering getting a gun for under the seat. Now, in the event > that > someone did point a gun at her head, did I want her going for a gun? > Mmmm… > nope.

A gun under the seat of a car is useless. Find someone to provide some training, before purchasing a firearm. Please. > Around the same time, I worked the cash register at a bookstore, and the > owner kept a loaded .45 auto behind the counter. Now, it’s very important > to > understand that if an armed robber comes in to hold you up, you can shoot > him to defend yourself, and your property, but you CAN’T shoot him in the > back as he’s leaving. That’s murder.

That’s probably correct, in most states, ‘though it’s likely that murder would have to be proven in a court of law. Better to put two in the chest, and one in the head, before he’s on his way out of the store. Do book stores get robbed? > I think human beings in general are just a bit too emotional, a bit too > impulsive, for everybody to be allowed to carry a device in their pocket > that can drill a fatal hole through another human being in an instant.

You may be right. I think you’re wrong, and I think, if you bother to look at the statistics, you’ll see that literally millions of concealed carry permit holders prove that you’re wrong. > We are ALL just a bit too inclined to lose our cool, and do something we > later wish we hadn’t. A lot of us haven’t "grown up" that much, and > there’s > no practical test, other than an already established criminal record (too > late!), to determine who has or hasn’t.

I think you’ve just disqualified yourself, anyway. The rest of us have proven to be pretty stable, so far. > At some point, over a hundred years ago, somebody with a rational brain > decided that they had to get the guns off the street in Dodge City, and we > haven’t quite managed to do that yet, have we?

As far as I know, Kansas does not have a concealed carry law, so, you are wrong. > There are situations where guns have their place, but police, courts, and > prisons have their places, too. Not everything should be settled -Pow-!

That’s true. However, we don’t always get to choose when we’ll end up in those situations in which a firearm is needed. So, it’s better to have it, and not need it, than to need it, and not have it. The police have no duty to protect you, and, as you well know, they’re never around when you need’em! > The Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us the right to bear arms. But > did they have the foresight to anticipate Uzis and driveby shootings at > malls? I believe they were thinking something more like… muzzleloaders. > Single shot. For hunting. And hostile indians. And getting a militia > together in a hurry if British ships were suddenly offloading redcoats.

The Founding Fathers gave us a Constitution to protect our God-given right to bear arms. Drive-by shootings would diminish, rapidly, were the mall denizens not disarmed. I think the Founders managed to think far into the future, and predict that the right to keep and bear arms would serve mankind in every era. Those Founding Fathers were amazingly amazing! > They did, in their wisdom, create a Constitution that could be amended, > because they realized that they weren’t Eternal Gods, and that the > document > was not exactly the Eternal Word of God, either.

The Constitution was the best that man could do, at that point. I think they did very well. You’ll notice, of course, that the right to keep and bear arms is one of those very first amendments, and is not embodied in the Constitution. There was considerable debate, and the Founders eventually arrived at the correct conclusion: More guns, less crime. > "More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so.

Then, you’re in denial. You should seek treatment, before it’s imposed upon you. Once you are forced into treatment, you may have jeopardized your Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms. — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org

Response:

–snip– >While I respect the right of people to protect themselves, >does that mean everybody is safe if everybody carries >a gun?

No, it doesn’t. And if there were NO guns, people still wouldn’t be safe. Do you think that if all guns were banned/outlawed/ confiscated, criminals wouldn’t still have them? As long as criminals have guns, it only makes sense to let law- abiding people arm themselves, too. The police – "To Protect and Serve" notwithstanding – are under no legal obligation to protect anyone. Police departments have been sued for failing to protect a citizen, and to my knowledge there hasn’t been a case yet that was decided in favor of the victim(s). >Should our kids be allowed to "protect themselves," >and carry guns at school?

No. Or federal buildings, factories, etc. >At what point do we allow people to protect themselves >with a gun? High school? College?

My personal opinion: if you’re old enough to be trusted with a car on the streets, you’re old enough to handle a gun. Note: both of these assume some sort of training ahead of time. >There’s no doubt that we have a lot more gun crime in >this country, simply because we have more guns.

That’s oversimplifying. There are numerous factors that make our country more violence-prone. >And all the figures I’ve seen say that if you have a gun >at the ready for home defense, you’re many times >more likely to shoot a friend or family member than >you are to shoot an actual "bad guy."

43 times more likely, perhaps? Is that what you read? http://i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/43_to_1_fallacy.htm >Is there a practical way to have that gun at the ready, >yet absolutely prevent one of your kids from getting to >it?

Kids have to be taught to handle and respect guns, much as with knives, cars, table saws, pickaxes, etc. You have to learn the capabilities of whatever tool you’re using. >And, while it’s true that there are a bunch of different >ways that a depressed person can commit suicide, >a gun just makes it way too easy, and irrecoverably >final.

"Japan, which prohibits handguns and rifles entirely, and regulates long guns very severely, has a suicide rate over twice the U.S. level." (from above link) "In the book ‘Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America’, Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck analyzed suicide data for every America city with a population over 100,000, and found no evidence that any form of gun control (including handgun prohibition) had an effect on the total suicide rate. Gun control did sometimes reduce gun suicide, but not overall suicide." (from above link) [Note: the cited book is highly recommended. Also Google on "Don B. Kates Jr." Neither of these guys is a Michigan Militia type.]] >My ex-wife used to have a job where she had to drive >into some really bad parts of Miami, was worried about >getting held up with a gun at a stoplight, and was >considering getting a gun for under the seat. Now, in the >event that someone did point a gun at her head, did I >want her going for a gun? Mmmm… nope.

A gun isn’t a magic wand; it’s an option that an unarmed person doesn’t have. Sometimes it can make all the difference. >Around the same time, I worked the cash register at a >bookstore, and the owner kept a loaded .45 auto behind >the counter. Now, it’s very important to understand that if >an armed robber comes in to hold you up, you can shoot >him to defend yourself, and your property,

IIRC, in Texas you can shoot to defend your property. There aren’t many states like that. In Wisconsin, for example, you can shoot to defend your life or the lives of your family. >but you CAN’T shoot him in the back as he’s leaving. >That’s murder.

True. >I think human beings in general are just a bit too emotional, >a bit too impulsive, for everybody to be allowed to carry a >device in their pocket that can drill a fatal hole through >another human being in an instant. >We are ALL just a bit too inclined to lose our cool, and do >something we later wish we hadn’t. A lot of us haven’t >"grown up" that much, and there’s no practical test, other >than an already established criminal record (too late!), to >determine who has or hasn’t.

Some people are too unstable to own or carry guns, agreed. These same people shouldn’t be able to get driver’s licenses, either. >At some point, over a hundred years ago, somebody >with a rational brain decided that they had to get the guns >off the street in Dodge City, and we haven’t quite managed >to do that yet, have we?

We’ve passed hundreds (thousands?) of laws controlling gun use. Predictably, the people that do the most damage – the mentally unstable, the criminals, or both – are unaffected by more laws on the books. >There are situations where guns have their place, but >police, courts, and prisons have their places, too. Not >everything should be settled -Pow-!

Agreed. >The Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us the right >to bear arms. But did they have the foresight to anticipate >Uzis and driveby shootings at malls? I believe they were >thinking something more like… muzzleloaders. Single shot. >For hunting. And hostile indians. And getting a militia >together in a hurry if British ships were suddenly offloading >redcoats.

There was no "getting a militia together" – the armed citizenry _was_ the militia. >They did, in their wisdom, create a Constitution that could >be amended, because they realized that they weren’t >Eternal Gods, and that the document was not exactly the >Eternal Word of God, either. >"More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so.

Look at the cities with the most restrictive gun laws – Washington, D.C, NYC, etc. They have higher homicide rates than you’d expect, if you put your faith in laws. American propensity towards violence – including gun violence – is a complicated problem, but IMO we should be looking at the software rather than the hardware. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Response:

–snip– Good post. I agree mostly with your points on personal responsibility. The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Response:

> IIRC, in Texas you can shoot to defend your property. > There aren’t many states like that. In Wisconsin, for > example, you can shoot to defend your life or the lives > of your family.

Between sunset and sunup, you can shoot to protect property. You can even shoot’em in the back, as they run away with your hubcaps, or gun down the homeless guy that’s rifling through your trash cans and wakes you up, or put a .357 into the perp as he’s driving through the mall parking lot, trying to get away, and get no-billed by a grand jury. Gotta love it! No place else is Texas! >but you CAN’T shoot him in the back as he’s leaving. >That’s murder. > True.

Well, it really depends, but it’s generally true. It’s probably not worth taking the chance, anyway. — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org

Response:

> –snip– > Good post. I agree mostly with your points on > personal responsibility. > The Repair Guy > http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

Graci, Repair Guy. I agree with yours, as well. That’s two. We need more! — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> IIRC, in Texas you can shoot to defend your property. > There aren’t many states like that. In Wisconsin, for > example, you can shoot to defend your life or the lives > of your family. > Between sunset and sunup, you can shoot to protect property. You can even > shoot’em in the back, as they run away with your hubcaps, or gun down the > homeless guy that’s rifling through your trash cans and wakes you up, or put > a .357 into the perp as he’s driving through the mall parking lot, trying to > get away, and get no-billed by a grand jury. > Gotta love it! No place else is Texas! >>but you CAN’T shoot him in the back as he’s leaving. >>That’s murder. > True. > Well, it really depends, but it’s generally true. It’s probably not worth > taking the chance, anyway.

Back in the day, miscreants were often treated to an ass full of rock salt, courtesy of a double-barreled 12-gauge. If there were more of that going on these days, there’d be a helluva lot less crime. There was *never* any talk of suing the property owner, the citizenry *laughed* at the tresspasser, and the perp had a constant reminder for two weeks or so as to why you don’t fuck with other people’s property. After that, the memory was usually sufficient. Lord Valve American

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> Then, you’re in denial. You should seek treatment, before it’s imposed upon > you. Once you are forced into treatment, you may have jeopardized your > Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms.

You’re saying that I’m somehow mentally unbalanced because I don’t carry a gun? And that if someone discovers that fact, that I could be institutionalized, and then never be allowed to carry one? Man, I better go get a gun right now! What was I thinking? Here I was, thinking that I was okay because I wasn’t paranoid and packing, when, in reality, all the sane people ARE! I naively believed that it was enough for me to have a .22 long rifle, a 30-30 lever action, a 16-guage bolt action, and a double-barrel 20-guage at home, but… Oh, how could I have been so foolish? I realize now that I really need one of those .44 magnums, or I am neither safe, nor sane. I’ll go take care of that right away. So, if I ever meet you guys on the street, you can feel okay about me being a rational guy with a gun, rather than be worried about me being some kind of crazy nut without one. Gosh, I shudder to think of all the crazy people out there without guns, who obviously need treatment. How many of them don’t carry because they have been discovered to not carry a gun, been treated for it, and are REALLY not packing because they’ve been forced into treatment for it? We’re in real danger here, aren’t we? Thank you so much for helping me see the light. I’m okay now. Really! Zoid

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>>> "More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so. > Then, you’re in denial. You should seek treatment, > before it’s imposed upon you. Once you are forced > into treatment, you may have jeopardized your > Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear > arms. >You’re saying that I’m somehow mentally unbalanced >because I don’t carry a gun? And that if someone >discovers that fact, that I could be institutionalized, >and then never be allowed to carry one?

I think the "seek treatment" bit was tongue-in-cheek. He was trying to establish that violent crime is lower when everyone’s armed. Obligatory example: shooting ranges :-) The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> "More guns, less crime?" Personally, I don’t think so. >> Then, you’re in denial. You should seek treatment, >> before it’s imposed upon you. Once you are forced >> into treatment, you may have jeopardized your >> Constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear >> arms. > You’re saying that I’m somehow mentally unbalanced > because I don’t carry a gun? And that if someone > discovers that fact, that I could be institutionalized, > and then never be allowed to carry one? > I think the "seek treatment" bit was tongue-in-cheek. > He was trying to establish that violent crime is lower > when everyone’s armed. > Obligatory example: shooting ranges :-)

You’re right. I’m mostly just an old fart peace-loving neohippy guitar player who sometimes takes these guys way too seriously. I really shouldn’t do that. Actually, they do have me halfway thinking of getting a handgun… Yeah, right… Zoid

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> You’re saying that I’m somehow mentally unbalanced because I don’t carry a > gun? And that if someone discovers that fact, that I could be > institutionalized, and then never be allowed to carry one?

Not even the least educated reading of what I’ve written could be construed to mean what you’re suggesting. You should try and find a pre-schooler to assist you with your reading efforts. > Man, I better go get a gun right now! What was I thinking? Here I was, > thinking that I was okay because I wasn’t paranoid and packing, when, in > reality, all the sane people ARE! I naively believed that it was enough > for > me to have a .22 long rifle, a 30-30 lever action, a 16-guage bolt action, > and a double-barrel 20-guage at home, but… Oh, how could I have been so > foolish? I realize now that I really need one of those .44 magnums, or I > am > neither safe, nor sane.

You probably shouldn’t get a gun. In fact, from what I’m reading, here, you may not be allowed to purchase a firearm in the United States, because you’re not mentally stable. Don’t worry. I’ll forward your information to the BATFE, so you can work out the details on how you’ll go about surrendering your firearms. > I’ll go take care of that right away. So, if I ever meet you guys on the > street, you can feel okay about me being a rational guy with a gun, rather > than be worried about me being some kind of crazy nut without one.

You won’t meet us on the street. They don’t let crazy nuts out for very long. > Gosh, I shudder to think of all the crazy people out there without guns, > who > obviously need treatment. How many of them don’t carry because they have > been discovered to not carry a gun, been treated for it, and are REALLY > not > packing because they’ve been forced into treatment for it? We’re in real > danger here, aren’t we?

No, we’re not, but you may be. Please, seek treatment at your earliest convenience. > Thank you so much for helping me see the light. I’m okay now. Really!

I doubt that you are, but you soon will be! — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org – If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it’s free. — P.J. O’Rourke (1993)

Response:

> Back in the day, miscreants were often treated to an ass > full of rock salt, courtesy of a double-barreled 12-gauge. > If there were more of that going on these days, there’d > be a helluva lot less crime. There was *never* any > talk of suing the property owner, the citizenry *laughed* > at the tresspasser, and the perp had a constant reminder > for two weeks or so as to why you don’t fuck with other > people’s property. After that, the memory was usually > sufficient.

You’re right. It’s just like taking corporal punishment out of the schools. What’d we think the result was going to be? — Kevin -=#=- www.freerepublic.com www.glennbeck.com www.factcheck.org – If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it’s free. — P.J. O’Rourke (1993)

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In: Deer Hunting

Duh-bya Ain't No Cowboy

Question:

George W. Bush is a fake cowboy. From media accounts, you’d reckon that the president was a buckaroo to the bones. He plays up the image, big-time, with $300 designer cowboy boots, a $1,000 cowboy hat, and his 1,600-acre Prairie Chapel Ranch in Crawford, Texas. He guns his rhetoric with frontier lingo, saying that he’ll "ride herd" over ornery Middle Eastern governments and "smoke out" enemies in wild mountain passes. He branded Saddam Hussein’s Iraq "an outlaw regime" and took the vanquished dictator’s pistol as a trophy. As for Osama bin Laden, Bush declared, "I want justice. And there’s an old poster out West, I recall, that says, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive.’ " Britain’s liberal newspaper The Guardian noted that "such language feeds the image overseas of Mr. Bush as a hopelessly inarticulate, trigger-happy cowboy." But liberals from both coasts and Europeans who derisively call Bush a "cowboy" foolishly insult not Bush, but one of America’s prime ennobling myths. Instead of ridiculing the myth exploited by George W. Bush, they may want to measure him against it. "The idea of the American cowboy is the direct lineal descendant of the chivalric knight," observes Bonnie Wheeler, a medievalist in cowboy country. "The only serious difference is that your status doesn’t depend on your social class." Editor of Arthuriana, the journal of Arthurian studies, Wheeler teaches at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. "Our president," she says, "is neither a knight nor a cowboy. He doesn’t believe in taking care of the little guy, nor does he have the restraint or dignity of the cowboy." Children of Bush’s generation grew up knowing of the Cowboy Code, which echoed the chivalric one. It was written by screen cowboy Gene Autry. In real life too, this lifelong Democrat was the kind of white-hat cowboy our president presents himself to be. Autry was the son of an itinerant cattle driver and horse trader in rural Texas and Oklahoma. He was a recreational small-aircraft pilot, but during World War II he paid for his own flight lessons on larger planes so he could serve in the Air Transport Command on the war front, instead of being stuck at a domestic base. Ultimately he flew explosive supplies (ammunition and fuel) over the Himalayas. A grateful U.S. Army bestowed a singular honor on Autry: He alone was allowed to wear his cowboy boots in uniform. This is about more than having a big ranch. Like the knight, the cowboy is an ideal to which people aspire, Wheeler says, regardless of its mundane historical origins. And Autry’s code still carries resonance in red states. Voters there, including the Wild West swing states of Colorado and Nevada, might want to think twice about returning a soft-handed wannabe to the White House. Here’s how Bush stacks up against the Cowboy Code: 1 The Cowboy must never shoot first, hit a smaller man, or take unfair advantage. The doctrine of preemptive war, the centerpiece of Bush policy in Iraq and for the "war on terror," is one for the black hats. In 1902, five years before Gene Autry was born, Owen Wister’s bestselling novel The Virginian elevated the cowboy to a national symbol. "It’s not a brave man that’s dangerous. It’s the cowards that scare me," a card dealer observes early in the book. "I never like to be around where there’s a coward. You can’t tell. He’ll always go to shooting before it’s necessary, and there’s no security who he’ll hit." When the Virginian is forced into a climactic duel, the villain shoots first. Only then does the Virginian return fire and make a clean kill. Though the Virginian continually countered dastardly deeds done by the villain Trampas, he always acted magnanimously when he had the upper hand. American Cowboy magazine asked its readers to explain why we still need cowboys, noting that, thanks to western movies, "for decades, folks of all descriptions have admired and tried to emulate him." U.S. Army Corporal Randy Melton of the 1st Cavalry Division replied from Baghdad, "If those guys who did all that crazy stuff to the ‘terrorist POWs’ grew up sitting on a horse instead of in front of a TV playing video games, maybe they would have conducted themselves with a little more dignity." Melton added, "Every time my platoon corralled a couple of ‘bad guys,’ it’s easy to get angry with them. But we always treat them with dignity, whether they deserve it or not." Unfortunately, the sadistic abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and the violations at Guant

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In: Hunting Games

OT: "Kerry Says He's in a 'Fighting Mood'"

Question:

Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ NEDRA PICKLER Associated Press TACOMA, Wash. – Democratic Sen. John Kerry said Saturday he’s in a "fighting mood" with two months to go to the presidential election as his allies defended him from questions about his valor in Vietnam. "For the last four years, we’ve had a dark cloud over Washington," Kerry told several thousand people gathered under overcast skies. "We’re going to get rid of it on November 2." In a 45-minute speech, Kerry stuck to offense against Bush’s record and left defense against the Vietnam War criticisms that have dominated the race the last two weeks to two other veterans who introduced him. Kerry’s Democratic primary rival Wesley Clark, his voice rising to a yell, suggested President Bush is behind the criticisms being aired by veterans who say Kerry lied to get medals and then disgraced the country with his anti-war activism after returning home. "I think that it’s outrageous that the president of the United States can question the medals and the service and the valor of American veterans who have served," said Clark, a retired four-star Army general. "It’s offensive against every veteran in this country." Relying heavily on money and help from Republicans, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have made the claims, many of which have been disputed by Navy documents and other veterans. Bush has said he’s not behind the criticisms and he doesn’t think Kerry lied to get his medals. Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said Clark’s comments were "another flailing baseless attack that underscores the hypocrisy of John Kerry’s entire campaign." Kerry clapped and nodded as Clark spoke, but didn’t mention criticisms of his record during his speech. Jim Rassmann, the former Special Forces officer whom Kerry rescued from the Mekong Delta 35 years ago to earn a Bronze Star, said Kerry’s courage was unquestionable. "I saw it happen time after time," he said. "I trust him," Rassmann said. "I want to have him at my back as president of the United States." Following the rally, Kerry visited former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman John Shalikashvili, who suffered a stroke shortly after the Democratic convention and is in a hospital in Fort Lewis, Wash. The retired Army general, an adviser to the Kerry campaign, had endorsed the candidate at the convention. After visiting Washington state, Kerry was heading to his beachfront home in Nantucket, Mass., where he planned to plot strategy for the final two months of the presidential campaign. "We’ve got 66 days to go, and I’m in a fighting mood," he said. Kerry plans to break from the tradition of staying off the trail during the opposing party’s convention with a speech Wednesday at the American Legion. Aides said it had not been determined whether he would address the Vietnam-era controversy in his appearance before the country’s largest veterans’ organization. _____ ON THE NET Kerry campaign: http://www.johnkerry.com Bush campaign: http://www.georgewbush.com _____ (c) 2004 AP Wire and wire service sources. Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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> Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’

Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. LV

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> Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’

that’s wealthy elitist parlance for "get my attorneys on the phone!" VH

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Yes. And "Bring – it – on!" is wealthy elitist-speak for "PLEASE! MAKE THEM STOP!WHY DIDN’T THE LAWYERS’ THREATS WORK??" Some fighter that guy is, eh? Hee hee, Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ > that’s wealthy elitist parlance for "get my attorneys on the phone!" > VH

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. > At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight > physical because he was all coked up. > All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz.

Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. God help America and the world if you ever were going to win. And *you* call *us* Nazis… Freep

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>> Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >that’s wealthy elitist parlance for "get my attorneys on the phone!"

Well, that’s how Dumber’nyuh got into The Oval Office, so he ought to know! Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ > > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. > At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight > physical because he was all coked up. > All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. God >help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >And *you* call *us* Nazis…

He’s just talking about what you guys deserve — I mean, Nixon deserved to tried for malfeasance in office, but even his worst enemies didn’t want even a disgraced American president stand trial. The country needs to heal and reunite, and President Kerry will see to that. You have nothing to worry about — after Ashcroft, whoever Kerry chooses will be a *huge* improvement. Even Lard Vulva’s guns will be safe — or at least as safe as anything in his immediate vicinity can ever be. Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. >> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight >> physical because he was all coked up. >> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. God >help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >And *you* call *us* Nazis… >He’s just talking about >what you guys deserve — >I mean, Nixon deserved to >tried for malfeasance in >office, but even his >worst enemies didn’t want >even a disgraced American >president stand trial.

DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, be doing time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who deserves what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in hell for what he’s admitted to. I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he committed? I wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell … he’s already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a guilty plea, or a guilty verdict. >The country needs to heal >and reunite, and President >Kerry will see to that.

Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) who will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. How do you reunite when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the war, regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? How do you reunite when his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to further his career? How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to keep him out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? How do you reunite when that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down neccessary armaments and supplies to keep them safe? How do you reunite, when his own own wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against? How do you reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals? How do you reunite when he wants to turn over any and all US military operations over to the UN, when they have demonstrated themselves to be unreliable and biased against the US and our Constitution? How do you reunite when he took an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution, but consistently talks about allowing the world to determine our country’s fate? How do you reunite under someone who hasn’t ever done anything beyond minimum requirements for the job he was elected to? He will be the biggest wedge EVER if he makes it to office of the Presidency. >You have nothing to worry >about — after Ashcroft, >whoever Kerry chooses >will be a *huge* >improvement. Even Lard >Vulva’s guns will be safe >– or at least as safe as >anything in his immediate >vicinity can ever be.

Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA for the longest time I can remember. http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment. JOhn KErry, the JoKe of the nation … Keep America clean, flush the Johns in ‘04 … Lostpup198 "People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." — A. J. Liebling [Abbott Joseph Liebling] (1904-1963) Journalist, author Source: The New Yorker, 7 April 1956

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >> Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >that’s wealthy elitist parlance for "get my attorneys on the phone!" >Well, that’s how Dumber’nyuh >got into The Oval Office, so >he ought to know!

IIRC, it was the Sore/Loserman campaign who first brought out their lawyers … they brought it on themselves. Lostpup198 "People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." — A. J. Liebling [Abbott Joseph Liebling] (1904-1963) Journalist, author Source: The New Yorker, 7 April 1956

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >>> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >>> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. >>> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight >>> physical because he was all coked up. >>> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >>Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. God >>help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >>And *you* call *us* Nazis… >He’s just talking about >what you guys deserve — >I mean, Nixon deserved to >tried for malfeasance in >office, but even his >worst enemies didn’t want >even a disgraced American >president stand trial. > DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, be doing >time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who deserves >what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in hell for >what he’s admitted to. > I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he committed? I >wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell … he’s >already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a guilty plea, >or a guilty verdict. >The country needs to heal >and reunite, and President >Kerry will see to that. >Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) who >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President.

Lincoln survived a whole lot worse — and it’s about time the dead wood who don’t know a qualified C-in-C when they see are gone. Good riddance! >How do you reunite >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the war, >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war?

Alarmist bullcrap — the military supposedly hated Clinton too, but when he said "march" they fucking marched. The more righty nutbags muster out, the better the military will get. >How do you reunite when >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to further his >career?

A bullshit accusation with no basis in fact — anyone, officer or enlisted, who’s stupid enough to believe it should start packing now. >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to keep him >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC?

None of these people actually served under Kerry and most of them really don’t know Kerry from Adam. This is a bunch of bitter old men who are pissed at Kerry because he was a vet who told the truth about Vietnam that, the truth they *still* don’t want to face. >How do you reunite when >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down neccessary >armaments and supplies to keep them safe?

Another bullshit accusation. Kerry know full well the measure would pass; he voted against it because the Dumber’nyuh refused to rescind the millionaire’s tax cut to fund it and instead financed the whole thing with funny money, aka deficit spending! It’s called a protest vote and its SOP in virtually every legislative body on the planet. >How do you reunite, when his own own >wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against?

Teresa Heinz Kerry is the heir to her late first husband’s personal wealth, afaik she does not control or manage any for-profit company and has been a nearly full-time philanthropist for many years. >How do you >reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals?

No, he isn’t — he’s right where most Americans are, only slightly to the left of the most popular president since FDR, Bill Clinton. That little bit of leftward push will serve us well, since the current adminstration has been running headlong to the far right of most Americans’ ideals! [snipped near-incoherent far right screed for irrelevance] >You have nothing to worry >about — after Ashcroft, >whoever Kerry chooses >will be a *huge* >improvement. Even Lard >Vulva’s guns will be safe >– or at least as safe as >anything in his immediate >vicinity can ever be. >Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA for the >longest time I can remember.

Your guns are safe, Tony. Trust me on that. The NRA can’t pound sand. >http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment.

At least he understands the Second Amendment — the NRA doesn’t. Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

>>Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) who >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >Lincoln survived a whole >lot worse — and it’s >about time the dead wood >who don’t know a >qualified C-in-C when >they see are gone. Good >riddance!

SO you cansider an admitted war criminal a "qualified" CinC … it figures. >How do you reunite >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the war, >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? >Alarmist bullcrap — the >military supposedly hated >Clinton too, but when he >said "march" they fucking >marched.

As if they had a choice … > The more righty >nutbags muster out, the >better the military will >get.

I guess this is the part where you come in with the "more sensitive" war part … I guess the military would get better if you wanted a bunch of pussies who opted out of combat after getting scratched 3 times. >How do you reunite when >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to further >his >career? >A bullshit accusation with >no basis in fact — anyone, >officer or enlisted, who’s >stupid enough to believe it >should start packing now.

How do you explain a SIlver Star with a "V" on it, then? (Hint: they don’t exist, except in Kerry’s record) How do you explain an award, with a narrative totally different from the original, signed by someone else who wasn’t involved 20 years after the fact? >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to keep >him >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? >None of these people actually >served under Kerry

You’re right … most of them were above him in the chain of command. > and most >of them really don’t know >Kerry from Adam.

That’s total bullshit. Although they weren’t on the same boat, they weren’t on the boats 24/7. They all lived in the same camp, they all ate in the same place, they all saw each other on a regular basis … those boats never worked alone, except in very rare instances. > This is a >bunch of bitter old men who >are pissed at Kerry because >he was a vet who told the >truth about Vietnam that, >the truth they *still* >don’t want to face.

He may have told the truth of some things that happened, but he sure did blow it up to a lot bigger of a problem than it actually was. My father, who was there 5 times longer than Kerry and actually on the ground, said that the closest he ever saw was a soldier butting a civilian in the face for rushing the soldier from behind, and grabbing on to his uniform. The soldier got spooked, but it’s hardly the kind of stuff that Kerry admitted to doing himself. The only reason I can think that nothing has been done to Kerry about his admissions, is that he’s either lying about them, or that he’s making them a little more than actually happened. If he actually saw or participated in these acts, he is in dereliction of his duty. I’ve said this before … even me as a lowly E-1 knew about how to treat civilians and was versed in the rules of engagement, so you would figure that an Officer, someone who is *allegedly* more educated and more refined, would have known, either equally or in more detail, what I knew. >How do you reunite when >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down neccessary >armaments and supplies to keep them safe? >Another bullshit accusation. >Kerry know full well the >measure would pass;

And if it didn’t, how would he have tried to explain it away? Actions speak louder than words, Brucie … he voted against it. Period. Here are his own words regarding that measure coming back to haunt him … "I don’t think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That’s irresponsible." (John Kerry, CBS’ "Face The Nation," 9/14/03) >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment. >At least he understands the >Second Amendment — the NRA >doesn’t.

Gee, I never saw anywhere in the second amendment that it only represented hunting weapons. Considering he wants to do away with *ALL* semi-automatic weapons (for those of you who are firearm-ignorant, these are NOT machine guns … SEMI-automatic only), I would say that pretty much strips down the options for those eligible who want to own weapons in order to protect their own country. Pretty much useless if you only have single actions or pump guns with magazines less than 10 rounds. Look at it this way … he already voted to ban 2 of the weapons I own, as well as the magazines for 4 of them. Luckily, I saw the list ahead of time, and bought them before they were illegal to buy. In fact, I know A LOT of people who bought them just to piss of the anti-gunners. The Brady BIll was about the biggest boon to gun sales during the ’90’s, so I figure they were just cutting off their nose to spite their face on that one. A purely cosmetic "solution" by differentiating firearms by the cosmetic features that were on them. IOW, "window dressing". You are aware that the Brady BIll did absolutely nothing as far as the anti-gunners version of "assault weapons" are concerned. You are aware that the military definition fo "assault weapon" means that it would be fully-automatic … and I trust that the military knows a little more about weaponry than someone who wants to do away with them … If he thinks that the second amendment means that the citizenry can only own weapons that could *never* stand the chance against an enemy, foreign OR domestic, then he needs a refresher course in the Constitution. Those people are supposed to be the last line of defense, and should have the ability to fight back. Lostpup198 "People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." — A. J. Liebling [Abbott Joseph Liebling] (1904-1963) Journalist, author Source: The New Yorker, 7 April 1956

Response:

Another one… Hitler thought the Jews ‘deserved’ it, too. Nice crowd you run with, Bruce. Hate much? Bush will win, Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. >> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight >> physical because he was all coked up. >> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. God >help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >And *you* call *us* Nazis… > He’s just talking about > what you guys deserve — > I mean, Nixon deserved to > tried for malfeasance in > office, but even his > worst enemies didn’t want > even a disgraced American > president stand trial. > The country needs to heal > and reunite, and President > Kerry will see to that. > You have nothing to worry > about — after Ashcroft, > whoever Kerry chooses > will be a *huge* > improvement. Even Lard > Vulva’s guns will be safe > — or at least as safe as > anything in his immediate > vicinity can ever be. > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Wow, you sure have a lot invested emotionally in Kerry. How upset will you be when he goes down in flames? Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >>>> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >>>> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. >>>> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight >>>> physical because he was all coked up. >>>> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >>>Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. God >>>help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >>>And *you* call *us* Nazis… >>He’s just talking about >>what you guys deserve — >>I mean, Nixon deserved to >>tried for malfeasance in >>office, but even his >>worst enemies didn’t want >>even a disgraced American >>president stand trial. > DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, be doing >time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who deserves >what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in hell for >what he’s admitted to. > I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he committed? I >wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell … he’s >already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a guilty plea, >or a guilty verdict. >>The country needs to heal >>and reunite, and President >>Kerry will see to that. >Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) who >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. > Lincoln survived a whole > lot worse — and it’s > about time the dead wood > who don’t know a > qualified C-in-C when > they see are gone. Good > riddance! >How do you reunite >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the war, >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? > Alarmist bullcrap — the > military supposedly hated > Clinton too, but when he > said "march" they fucking > marched. The more righty > nutbags muster out, the > better the military will > get. >How do you reunite when >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to further his >career? > A bullshit accusation with > no basis in fact — anyone, > officer or enlisted, who’s > stupid enough to believe it > should start packing now. >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to keep him >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? > None of these people actually > served under Kerry and most > of them really don’t know > Kerry from Adam. This is a > bunch of bitter old men who > are pissed at Kerry because > he was a vet who told the > truth about Vietnam that, > the truth they *still* > don’t want to face. >How do you reunite when >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down neccessary >armaments and supplies to keep them safe? > Another bullshit accusation. > Kerry know full well the > measure would pass; he voted > against it because the > Dumber’nyuh refused to > rescind the millionaire’s > tax cut to fund it and > instead financed the whole > thing with funny money, aka > deficit spending! It’s > called a protest vote and > its SOP in virtually every > legislative body on the > planet. >How do you reunite, when his own own >wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against? > Teresa Heinz Kerry is the > heir to her late first > husband’s personal wealth, > afaik she does not control > or manage any for-profit > company and has been a > nearly full-time > philanthropist for many > years. >How do you >reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals? > No, he isn’t — he’s right > where most Americans are, > only slightly to the left > of the most popular > president since FDR, Bill > Clinton. That little bit > of leftward push will > serve us well, since the > current adminstration has > been running headlong to > the far right of most > Americans’ ideals! > [snipped near-incoherent far > right screed for irrelevance] >>You have nothing to worry >>about — after Ashcroft, >>whoever Kerry chooses >>will be a *huge* >>improvement. Even Lard >>Vulva’s guns will be safe >>– or at least as safe as >>anything in his immediate >>vicinity can ever be. >Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA for the >longest time I can remember. > Your guns are safe, Tony. > Trust me on that. The > NRA can’t pound sand. >http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment. > At least he understands the > Second Amendment — the NRA > doesn’t. > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

>>>Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) who >>will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >Lincoln survived a whole >lot worse — and it’s >about time the dead wood >who don’t know a >qualified C-in-C when >they see are gone. Good >riddance! >SO you cansider an admitted war criminal a "qualified" CinC … it figures.

You are such a dumbshit, Tony — tens of thousands of Viet vets are "war criminals" because their leader put them into a situation where it was either commit war crimes or risk their own deaths or the destruction of their units. If we jailed every nominal "war criminal" among Viet vets, we’d need a whole additional penal system to hold them. The nature of that war *created* war criminals from decent GIs thrown into untenable circumstances. Kerry *never* blamed the vets and neither do it. >>How do you reunite >>when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the war, >>regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? >Alarmist bullcrap — the >military supposedly hated >Clinton too, but when he >said "march" they fucking >marched. >As if they had a choice …

Exactly my point — the military is there to obey orders, and anyone in any service who doesn’t feel they can do that should muster out asap. > The more righty >nutbags muster out, the >better the military will >get. >I guess this is the part where you come in with the "more sensitive" war part >… I guess the military would get better if you wanted a bunch of pussies who >opted out of combat after getting scratched 3 times.

Spoken like a swabby who’s never seen any combat — Kerry served entirely by the rules and got out of the theatre as soon as he could. The former testifies to his personal integrity, the latter to his common sense once he discovered that the war was an unwinnable bloodbath of a debacle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>How do you reunite when >>his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to further >his >>career? >A bullshit accusation with >no basis in fact — anyone, >officer or enlisted, who’s >stupid enough to believe it >should start packing now. >How do you explain a SIlver Star with a "V" on it, then? (Hint: they don’t >exist, except in Kerry’s record) How do you explain an award, with a narrative >totally different from the original, signed by someone else who wasn’t involved >20 years after the fact?

I can’t explain any of that — but I know that the Navy awarded the decoration and didn’t rescind it, therefore he’s a decorated combat veteran and your boy isn’t. As Lard Vulva would put it, "choke on it." >>How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >>worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to keep >him >>out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? >None of these people actually >served under Kerry >You’re right … most of them were above him in the chain of command.

Iow, they weren’t there, and if they actually were in Kerry’s command chain they could have objected to any of his decorations and been duly heard. They didn’t because they had nothing then and they have nothing now — other than unresolved personal issue that have nothing whatsoever to do with Kerry’s performance in combat. > and most >of them really don’t know >Kerry from Adam. >That’s total bullshit. Although they weren’t on the same boat, they weren’t on >the boats 24/7. They all lived in the same camp, they all ate in the same >place, they all saw each other on a regular basis … those boats never worked >alone, except in very rare instances.

Iow, the vast majority of them never saw Kerry in action, and those few that did have given accounts that conflict with either the official record or their own previous statements — iow, going by all available evidence, they’re entirely full of shit, and are really pissed off at Kerry’s highly successful effort on behalf of the anti- war vets after he left the Navy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is a >bunch of bitter old men who >are pissed at Kerry because >he was a vet who told the >truth about Vietnam that, >the truth they *still* >don’t want to face. >He may have told the truth of some things that happened, but he sure did blow >it up to a lot bigger of a problem than it actually was. My father, who was >there 5 times longer than Kerry and actually on the ground, said that the >closest he ever saw was a soldier butting a civilian in the face for rushing >the soldier from behind, and grabbing on to his uniform. The soldier got >spooked, but it’s hardly the kind of stuff that Kerry admitted to doing >himself.

Your dad was either lucky or he’s not telling you everything he saw — many Viet vets still can’t tell the families what they actually did and/or saw. It’s very hard to accept, let alone admit to your loved ones. [snipped presumptive nonsense from a non- combat sailor] Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

I have no investment in a Kerry victory other than the fact that the alternative is unthinkable and a disaster for the republic I love — because I am an American, I’ll be *very* upset if the GOP manages to steal another term for Dumber’nyuh, as every American with a three-digit IQ and a modicum of common will be should that occur. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Wow, you sure have a lot invested emotionally in Kerry. How upset will you >be when he goes down in flames? >Freep > >>>> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > >>>> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ > >>>> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. > >>>> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight > >>>> physical because he was all coked up. > >>>> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. > >>>Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to >lose. God > >>>help America and the world if you ever were going to win. > >>>And *you* call *us* Nazis… > >>He’s just talking about > >>what you guys deserve — > >>I mean, Nixon deserved to > >>tried for malfeasance in > >>office, but even his > >>worst enemies didn’t want > >>even a disgraced American > >>president stand trial. > > DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, be >doing > >time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who >deserves > >what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in hell >for > >what he’s admitted to. > > I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he >committed? I > >wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell … >he’s > >already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a guilty >plea, > >or a guilty verdict. > >>The country needs to heal > >>and reunite, and President > >>Kerry will see to that. > >Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) >who > >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. > Lincoln survived a whole > lot worse — and it’s > about time the dead wood > who don’t know a > qualified C-in-C when > they see are gone. Good > riddance! > >How do you reunite > >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the >war, > >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? > Alarmist bullcrap — the > military supposedly hated > Clinton too, but when he > said "march" they fucking > marched. The more righty > nutbags muster out, the > better the military will > get. > >How do you reunite when > >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to >further his > >career? > A bullshit accusation with > no basis in fact — anyone, > officer or enlisted, who’s > stupid enough to believe it > should start packing now. > >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who > >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to >keep him > >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? > None of these people actually > served under Kerry and most > of them really don’t know > Kerry from Adam. This is a > bunch of bitter old men who > are pissed at Kerry because > he was a vet who told the > truth about Vietnam that, > the truth they *still* > don’t want to face. > >How do you reunite when > >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down >neccessary > >armaments and supplies to keep them safe? > Another bullshit accusation. > Kerry know full well the > measure would pass; he voted > against it because the > Dumber’nyuh refused to > rescind the millionaire’s > tax cut to fund it and > instead financed the whole > thing with funny money, aka > deficit spending! It’s > called a protest vote and > its SOP in virtually every > legislative body on the > planet. > >How do you reunite, when his own own > >wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against? > Teresa Heinz Kerry is the > heir to her late first > husband’s personal wealth, > afaik she does not control > or manage any for-profit > company and has been a > nearly full-time > philanthropist for many > years. > >How do you > >reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals? > No, he isn’t — he’s right > where most Americans are, > only slightly to the left > of the most popular > president since FDR, Bill > Clinton. That little bit > of leftward push will > serve us well, since the > current adminstration has > been running headlong to > the far right of most > Americans’ ideals! > [snipped near-incoherent far > right screed for irrelevance] > >>You have nothing to worry > >>about — after Ashcroft, > >>whoever Kerry chooses > >>will be a *huge* > >>improvement. Even Lard > >>Vulva’s guns will be safe > >>– or at least as safe as > >>anything in his immediate > >>vicinity can ever be. > >Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA for >the > >longest time I can remember. > Your guns are safe, Tony. > Trust me on that. The > NRA can’t pound sand. > >http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 > >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment. > At least he understands the > Second Amendment — the NRA > doesn’t. > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

>Another one… Hitler thought the Jews ‘deserved’ it, too.

But then he *acted* on that thought — there’s a reason the term "thought police" is a pejorative. >Nice crowd you run with, Bruce. Hate much?

Nope — but the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. I am vigilant, as every American should be given the high stakes of this election. >Bush will win,

…a comfortable retirement, which is a great deal more than he deserves! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Freep > >> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > >> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ > >> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. > >> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight > >> physical because he was all coked up. > >> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. > >Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to lose. >God > >help America and the world if you ever were going to win. > >And *you* call *us* Nazis… > He’s just talking about > what you guys deserve — > I mean, Nixon deserved to > tried for malfeasance in > office, but even his > worst enemies didn’t want > even a disgraced American > president stand trial. > The country needs to heal > and reunite, and President > Kerry will see to that. > You have nothing to worry > about — after Ashcroft, > whoever Kerry chooses > will be a *huge* > improvement. Even Lard > Vulva’s guns will be safe > — or at least as safe as > anything in his immediate > vicinity can ever be. > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

heh heh heh… that *is* a pretty big emotional investment. ’The alternative is unthinkable’? Prepare to be *very* upset. You won’t have the company you seem to be counting on, though. I’m looking forward to a landslide victory getting spun as a steal, too. That should be a hoot and a half. "If it’s not close, they can’t cheat", Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have no investment in a > Kerry victory other than > the fact that the > alternative is unthinkable > and a disaster for the > republic I love — because > I am an American, I’ll be > *very* upset if the GOP > manages to steal another > term for Dumber’nyuh, as > every American with a > three-digit IQ and a > modicum of common will be > should that occur. >Wow, you sure have a lot invested emotionally in Kerry. How upset will you >be when he goes down in flames? >Freep >> >>>> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >> >>>> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >> >>>> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. >> >>>> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight >> >>>> physical because he was all coked up. >> >>>> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >> >>>Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to >lose. God >> >>>help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >> >>>And *you* call *us* Nazis… >> >>He’s just talking about >> >>what you guys deserve — >> >>I mean, Nixon deserved to >> >>tried for malfeasance in >> >>office, but even his >> >>worst enemies didn’t want >> >>even a disgraced American >> >>president stand trial. >> > DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, be >doing >> >time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who >deserves >> >what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in hell >for >> >what he’s admitted to. >> > I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he >committed? I >> >wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell … >he’s >> >already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a guilty >plea, >> >or a guilty verdict. >> >>The country needs to heal >> >>and reunite, and President >> >>Kerry will see to that. >> >Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) >who >> >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >> Lincoln survived a whole >> lot worse — and it’s >> about time the dead wood >> who don’t know a >> qualified C-in-C when >> they see are gone. Good >> riddance! >> >How do you reunite >> >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the >war, >> >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? >> Alarmist bullcrap — the >> military supposedly hated >> Clinton too, but when he >> said "march" they fucking >> marched. The more righty >> nutbags muster out, the >> better the military will >> get. >> >How do you reunite when >> >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to >further his >> >career? >> A bullshit accusation with >> no basis in fact — anyone, >> officer or enlisted, who’s >> stupid enough to believe it >> should start packing now. >> >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >> >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to >keep him >> >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? >> None of these people actually >> served under Kerry and most >> of them really don’t know >> Kerry from Adam. This is a >> bunch of bitter old men who >> are pissed at Kerry because >> he was a vet who told the >> truth about Vietnam that, >> the truth they *still* >> don’t want to face. >> >How do you reunite when >> >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down >neccessary >> >armaments and supplies to keep them safe? >> Another bullshit accusation. >> Kerry know full well the >> measure would pass; he voted >> against it because the >> Dumber’nyuh refused to >> rescind the millionaire’s >> tax cut to fund it and >> instead financed the whole >> thing with funny money, aka >> deficit spending! It’s >> called a protest vote and >> its SOP in virtually every >> legislative body on the >> planet. >> >How do you reunite, when his own own >> >wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against? >> Teresa Heinz Kerry is the >> heir to her late first >> husband’s personal wealth, >> afaik she does not control >> or manage any for-profit >> company and has been a >> nearly full-time >> philanthropist for many >> years. >> >How do you >> >reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals? >> No, he isn’t — he’s right >> where most Americans are, >> only slightly to the left >> of the most popular >> president since FDR, Bill >> Clinton. That little bit >> of leftward push will >> serve us well, since the >> current adminstration has >> been running headlong to >> the far right of most >> Americans’ ideals! >> [snipped near-incoherent far >> right screed for irrelevance] >> >>You have nothing to worry >> >>about — after Ashcroft, >> >>whoever Kerry chooses >> >>will be a *huge* >> >>improvement. Even Lard >> >>Vulva’s guns will be safe >> >>– or at least as safe as >> >>anything in his immediate >> >>vicinity can ever be. >> >Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA for >the >> >longest time I can remember. >> Your guns are safe, Tony. >> Trust me on that. The >> NRA can’t pound sand. >> >http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 >> >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment. >> At least he understands the >> Second Amendment — the NRA >> doesn’t. >> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >> -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

It all comes down to "we’ll see," Clueless — and two months is a lifetime when it comes to presidential campaigns. Be prepared for quite a ride…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >heh heh heh… that *is* a pretty big emotional investment. ’The >alternative is unthinkable’? >Prepare to be *very* upset. You won’t have the company you seem to be >counting on, though. I’m looking forward to a landslide victory getting spun >as a steal, too. That should be a hoot and a half. >"If it’s not close, they can’t cheat", >Freep > I have no investment in a > Kerry victory other than > the fact that the > alternative is unthinkable > and a disaster for the > republic I love — because > I am an American, I’ll be > *very* upset if the GOP > manages to steal another > term for Dumber’nyuh, as > every American with a > three-digit IQ and a > modicum of common will be > should that occur. > >Wow, you sure have a lot invested emotionally in Kerry. How upset will >you > >be when he goes down in flames? > >Freep > >> >>>> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 > >> >>>> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ > >> >>>> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. > >> >>>> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight > >> >>>> physical because he was all coked up. > >> >>>> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. > >> >>>Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to > >lose. God > >> >>>help America and the world if you ever were going to win. > >> >>>And *you* call *us* Nazis… > >> >>He’s just talking about > >> >>what you guys deserve — > >> >>I mean, Nixon deserved to > >> >>tried for malfeasance in > >> >>office, but even his > >> >>worst enemies didn’t want > >> >>even a disgraced American > >> >>president stand trial. > >> > DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, >be > >doing > >> >time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who > >deserves > >> >what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in >hell > >for > >> >what he’s admitted to. > >> > I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he > >committed? I > >> >wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell >… > >he’s > >> >already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a >guilty > >plea, > >> >or a guilty verdict. > >> >>The country needs to heal > >> >>and reunite, and President > >> >>Kerry will see to that. > >> >Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military >officers) > >who > >> >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. > >> Lincoln survived a whole > >> lot worse — and it’s > >> about time the dead wood > >> who don’t know a > >> qualified C-in-C when > >> they see are gone. Good > >> riddance! > >> >How do you reunite > >> >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* >the > >war, > >> >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? > >> Alarmist bullcrap — the > >> military supposedly hated > >> Clinton too, but when he > >> said "march" they fucking > >> marched. The more righty > >> nutbags muster out, the > >> better the military will > >> get. > >> >How do you reunite when > >> >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to > >further his > >> >career? > >> A bullshit accusation with > >> no basis in fact — anyone, > >> officer or enlisted, who’s > >> stupid enough to believe it > >> should start packing now. > >> >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who > >> >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to > >keep him > >> >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? > >> None of these people actually > >> served under Kerry and most > >> of them really don’t know > >> Kerry from Adam. This is a > >> bunch of bitter old men who > >> are pissed at Kerry because > >> he was a vet who told the > >> truth about Vietnam that, > >> the truth they *still* > >> don’t want to face. > >> >How do you reunite when > >> >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down > >neccessary > >> >armaments and supplies to keep them safe? > >> Another bullshit accusation. > >> Kerry know full well the > >> measure would pass; he voted > >> against it because the > >> Dumber’nyuh refused to > >> rescind the millionaire’s > >> tax cut to fund it and > >> instead financed the whole > >> thing with funny money, aka > >> deficit spending! It’s > >> called a protest vote and > >> its SOP in virtually every > >> legislative body on the > >> planet. > >> >How do you reunite, when his own own > >> >wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against? > >> Teresa Heinz Kerry is the > >> heir to her late first > >> husband’s personal wealth, > >> afaik she does not control > >> or manage any for-profit > >> company and has been a > >> nearly full-time > >> philanthropist for many > >> years. > >> >How do you > >> >reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals? > >> No, he isn’t — he’s right > >> where most Americans are, > >> only slightly to the left > >> of the most popular > >> president since FDR, Bill > >> Clinton. That little bit > >> of leftward push will > >> serve us well, since the > >> current adminstration has > >> been running headlong to > >> the far right of most > >> Americans’ ideals! > >> [snipped near-incoherent far > >> right screed for irrelevance] > >> >>You have nothing to worry > >> >>about — after Ashcroft, > >> >>whoever Kerry chooses > >> >>will be a *huge* > >> >>improvement. Even Lard > >> >>Vulva’s guns will be safe > >> >>– or at least as safe as > >> >>anything in his immediate > >> >>vicinity can ever be. > >> >Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA >for > >the > >> >longest time I can remember. > >> Your guns are safe, Tony. > >> Trust me on that. The > >> NRA can’t pound sand. > >> >http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 > >> >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second >Amendment. > >> At least he understands the > >> Second Amendment — the NRA > >> doesn’t. > >> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > >> -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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are you guys bi-polar or something? Get a life.

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>> Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >> Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >that’s wealthy elitist parlance for "get my attorneys on the phone!" > Well, that’s how Dumber’nyuh > got into The Oval Office, so > he ought to know!

Yep, that’s all Team Chimpy (war criminals) can brag about – a 5 to 4 victory. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) >who >>>will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >>Lincoln survived a whole >>lot worse — and it’s >>about time the dead wood >>who don’t know a >>qualified C-in-C when >>they see are gone. Good >>riddance! >SO you cansider an admitted war criminal a "qualified" CinC … it figures. >You are such a dumbshit,

Run out of points so you have to call names … figures. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tony — tens of thousands >of Viet vets are "war >criminals" because their >leader put them into a >situation where it was >either commit war crimes >or risk their own deaths >or the destruction of >their units. If we >jailed every nominal >"war criminal" among Viet >vets, we’d need a whole >additional penal system >to hold them. The nature >of that war *created* war >criminals from decent GIs >thrown into untenable >circumstances. Kerry >*never* blamed the vets >and neither do it. >>Alarmist bullcrap — the >>military supposedly hated >>Clinton too, but when he >>said "march" they fucking >>marched. >As if they had a choice … >Exactly my point — the >military is there to >obey orders, and anyone >in any service who >doesn’t feel they can do >that should muster out >asap.

Here’s a clue from someone who was in the military to someone who obviously doesn’t have a fucking clue about anything military (YOU!) … one doesn’t have to obey unlawful orders … in fact, soldiers are encouraged *not* to obey them. To commit a war crime is an unlawful order. To go into battle is a lawful order … no comparison. >I guess this is the part where you come in with the "more sensitive" war >part >… I guess the military would get better if you wanted a bunch of pussies >who >opted out of combat after getting scratched 3 times. >Spoken like a swabby who’s >never seen any combat —

from an elitist idiot who would run away from combat … if you mean bullets flying around and bombs going off, no I haven’t. But I do have what is considered to be a combat medal. http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/afem.htm "Authorized in 1961, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal is awarded to members of all US Armed Forces for participation in US Military operations, operations in direct support of the United Nations, or US operations of assistance for friendly or foreign nations in danger from hostile actions." I guarantee it’s more than you have. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->He may have told the truth of some things that happened, but he sure did >blow >it up to a lot bigger of a problem than it actually was. My father, who was >there 5 times longer than Kerry and actually on the ground, said that the >closest he ever saw was a soldier butting a civilian in the face for rushing >the soldier from behind, and grabbing on to his uniform. The soldier got >spooked, but it’s hardly the kind of stuff that Kerry admitted to doing >himself. >Your dad was either lucky >or he’s not telling you >everything he saw — many >Viet vets still can’t >tell the families what >they actually did and/or >saw. It’s very hard to >accept, let alone admit >to your loved ones.

Actually, it took him about 30 years for him to talk to me about it. Aside from being in the thick of things over there, that was the same time that my mother (his wife) died back here in the States. Pain was compounded for him, I can guarantee you that. But, as far as VN is concerned, he is definitely more open about that part of his life. Once it started, that wall fell pretty quickly, for some reason. >[snipped presumptive > nonsense from a non- > combat sailor]

Don’t speak of what you do not know … you non combat elitist chicken shit. Who’s being presumptive? http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/afem.htm Choke on it! Lostpup198 "People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." — A. J. Liebling [Abbott Joseph Liebling] (1904-1963) Journalist, author Source: The New Yorker, 7 April 1956

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Enough of this "Vietnam Hero" blather from the Left. It was Lyndon Johnson and his Democrat cronies who engineered the Vietnam war in the first place, then had not the guts to win it. They abandoned tens of thousands of young men, over 90% of them draftees, to die in vain while they did the biggest "flip flop" in American history. War criminals? You want war criminals? How about the atrocities committed by the Vietnamese themselves? Who among the whining, traitorous left ever condemned the wholesale, wanton slaughter of millions of Vietnamese by the VC & NVA? It was the NVA who invaded Cambodia, Laos & even Thailand, emboldened and armed Pol Pot and supported the murderous Communist regimes and their killing fields. No, this Kerry is a pack of lying filth who used the lives of his countrymen to feather his own political nest. In a final insult to their service, he later sold out that last remaining hopes of MIA families in his appeasement of the Vietnamese killers. He deserves a prison cell, that’s where all traitors belong.

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Kerry is in a fighting mood? I haven’t seen anything that said he fought an enemy in Vietnam, unless you count the time his boat machine gunned a man and his baby (which he lied about in his report) and shot a teenager in the back. Kerry is disliked by a lot of Vets because of his VVAW activities after he got out. Yes, My Lai did happen, and the guilty were prosecuted. The problem is that Kerry and the VVAW made up a lot of crap that hurt those still there. Along with radical chic royalty like Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, and supported by Sen. Eugene McCarthy and Fr. Daniel Berrigan, Kerry and the VVAW members met in Detroit and testified to atrocities they had committed or been witness to in Vietnam. Allegations included torture, intentional dismemberment, and gang rape (some excerpts are included in "The New Soldier"). The project operated under the thesis that American atrocities like the one at My Lai weren’t highly unusual but reflected the routinely criminal exploits of American military leadership and soldiers. After Senator Mark O. Hatfield read the Winter Soldier testimony into the Congressional Record, he asked for an official investigation. When the Naval Investigate Service did just that, many of the veterans refused to cooperate (despite protections against self-incrimination). One soldier admitted that his testimony had been coached by members of the Nation of Islam. Exact details of the atrocity he’d seen now escaped his memory. Several veterans hunted down by Naval investigators swore they had never been to Detroit and couldn’t imagine who would have used their identities. (Somehow this episode was left out of the "Winter Soldier" chapter of [Douglas] Brinkley’s [new] book [Tour of Duty, on Kerry's Vietnam service, reviewed in the Standard by Andrew Ferguson last week], but the details can be found in Guenter Lewy’s "America in Vietnam" and in Mackubin Thomas Owens’s account in the National Review.) These days former Vietnam war POW Sen. John McCain has nothing but praise for his fellow Vietnam veteran, Sen. John Kerry, the Democrats’ current presidential front-runner. But after he was released from the Hanoi Hilton in 1973, Sen. McCain publicly complained that testimony by Kerry and others before J. William Fulbright’s Senate Foreign Relations Committee was "the most effective propaganda [my North Vietnamese captors] had to use against us." As another POW said, "John Kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades in North Viet Nam prison camps took torture to avoid saying." — Paul Galanti POW Jan. 1966 – Feb. 1973 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) who >>will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >Lincoln survived a whole >lot worse — and it’s >about time the dead wood >who don’t know a >qualified C-in-C when >they see are gone. Good >riddance! > SO you cansider an admitted war criminal a "qualified" CinC … it figures. >>How do you reunite >>when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* the war, >>regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? >Alarmist bullcrap — the >military supposedly hated >Clinton too, but when he >said "march" they fucking >marched. > As if they had a choice … > The more righty >nutbags muster out, the >better the military will >get. > I guess this is the part where you come in with the "more sensitive" war part > … I guess the military would get better if you wanted a bunch of pussies who > opted out of combat after getting scratched 3 times. >>How do you reunite when >>his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to further > his >>career? >A bullshit accusation with >no basis in fact — anyone, >officer or enlisted, who’s >stupid enough to believe it >should start packing now. > How do you explain a SIlver Star with a "V" on it, then? (Hint: they don’t > exist, except in Kerry’s record) How do you explain an award, with a narrative > totally different from the original, signed by someone else who wasn’t involved > 20 years after the fact? >>How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >>worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to keep > him >>out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? >None of these people actually >served under Kerry > You’re right … most of them were above him in the chain of command. > and most >of them really don’t know >Kerry from Adam. > That’s total bullshit. Although they weren’t on the same boat, they weren’t on > the boats 24/7. They all lived in the same camp, they all ate in the same > place, they all saw each other on a regular basis … those boats never worked > alone, except in very rare instances. > This is a >bunch of bitter old men who >are pissed at Kerry because >he was a vet who told the >truth about Vietnam that, >the truth they *still* >don’t want to face. > He may have told the truth of some things that happened, but he sure did blow > it up to a lot bigger of a problem than it actually was. My father, who was > there 5 times longer than Kerry and actually on the ground, said that the > closest he ever saw was a soldier butting a civilian in the face for rushing > the soldier from behind, and grabbing on to his uniform. The soldier got > spooked, but it’s hardly the kind of stuff that Kerry admitted to doing > himself. > The only reason I can think that nothing has been done to Kerry about his > admissions, is that he’s either lying about them, or that he’s making them a > little more than actually happened. If he actually saw or participated in > these acts, he is in dereliction of his duty. I’ve said this before … even > me as a lowly E-1 knew about how to treat civilians and was versed in the rules > of engagement, so you would figure that an Officer, someone who is *allegedly* > more educated and more refined, would have known, either equally or in more > detail, what I knew. >>How do you reunite when >>that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down neccessary >>armaments and supplies to keep them safe? >Another bullshit accusation. >Kerry know full well the >measure would pass; > And if it didn’t, how would he have tried to explain it away? Actions speak > louder than words, Brucie … he voted against it. Period. Here are his own > words regarding that measure coming back to haunt him … > "I don’t think any United States senator is going to abandon our troops and > recklessly leave Iraq to whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and > running. That’s irresponsible." (John Kerry, CBS’ "Face The Nation," 9/14/03) >>Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second Amendment. >At least he understands the >Second Amendment — the NRA >doesn’t. > Gee, I never saw anywhere in the second amendment that it only represented > hunting weapons. Considering he wants to do away with *ALL* semi-automatic > weapons (for those of you who are firearm-ignorant, these are NOT machine guns > … SEMI-automatic only), I would say that pretty much strips down the options > for those eligible who want to own weapons in order to protect their own > country. Pretty much useless if you only have single actions or pump guns with > magazines less than 10 rounds. Look at it this way … he already voted to ban > 2 of the weapons I own, as well as the magazines for 4 of them. Luckily, I saw > the list ahead of time, and bought them before they were illegal to buy. In > fact, I know A LOT of people who bought them just to piss of the anti-gunners. > The Brady BIll was about the biggest boon to gun sales during the ’90’s, so I > figure they were just cutting off their nose to spite their face on that one. > A purely cosmetic "solution" by differentiating firearms by the cosmetic > features that were on them. IOW, "window dressing". You are aware that the > Brady BIll did absolutely nothing as far as the anti-gunners version of > "assault weapons" are concerned. You are aware that the military definition fo > "assault weapon" means that it would be fully-automatic … and I trust that > the military knows a little more about weaponry than someone who wants to do > away with them … > If he thinks that the second amendment means that the citizenry can only own > weapons that could *never* stand the chance against an enemy, foreign OR > domestic, then he needs a refresher course in the Constitution. Those people > are supposed to be the last line of defense, and should have the ability to > fight back. > Lostpup198 > "People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news." > — A. J. Liebling > [Abbott Joseph Liebling] (1904-1963) Journalist, author > Source: The New Yorker, 7 April 1956

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Zogby says undecideds are breaking for Bush. A bad omen for the liberals, to say the least. Freep Confident

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It all comes down to "we’ll > see," Clueless — and two > months is a lifetime when > it comes to presidential > campaigns. Be prepared for > quite a ride…. >heh heh heh… that *is* a pretty big emotional investment. ’The >alternative is unthinkable’? >Prepare to be *very* upset. You won’t have the company you seem to be >counting on, though. I’m looking forward to a landslide victory getting spun >as a steal, too. That should be a hoot and a half. >"If it’s not close, they can’t cheat", >Freep >> I have no investment in a >> Kerry victory other than >> the fact that the >> alternative is unthinkable >> and a disaster for the >> republic I love — because >> I am an American, I’ll be >> *very* upset if the GOP >> manages to steal another >> term for Dumber’nyuh, as >> every American with a >> three-digit IQ and a >> modicum of common will be >> should that occur. >> >Wow, you sure have a lot invested emotionally in Kerry. How upset will >you >> >be when he goes down in flames? >> >Freep >> >> >>>> > > Posted on Sat, Aug. 28, 2004 >> >> >>>> > > Kerry Says He’s in a ‘Fighting Mood’ >> >> >>>> > Must be runnin’ low on Purple Hearts again. >> >> >>>> At least he went. Your boy deserted and refused to take a flight >> >> >>>> physical because he was all coked up. >> >> >>>> All republicans deserve to be burned in Auscwicz. >> >> >>>Oh, how kind. Good thing you folks who think that way are going to >> >lose. God >> >> >>>help America and the world if you ever were going to win. >> >> >>>And *you* call *us* Nazis… >> >> >>He’s just talking about >> >> >>what you guys deserve — >> >> >>I mean, Nixon deserved to >> >> >>tried for malfeasance in >> >> >>office, but even his >> >> >>worst enemies didn’t want >> >> >>even a disgraced American >> >> >>president stand trial. >> >> > DESERVE? If Kerry got what he deserved, he’d , at the very least, >be >> >doing >> >> >time for all the war crimes he admitted to! Don’t tell me about who >> >deserves >> >> >what, because if he doesn’t get it in this life, Kerry will burn in >hell >> >for >> >> >what he’s admitted to. >> >> > I wonder if there’s a statute of limitations on the crimes he >> >committed? I >> >> >wonder why nobody has brought him up on charges, yet? I mean, hell >… >> >he’s >> >> >already given a confession. It ought to be easy to get either a >guilty >> >plea, >> >> >or a guilty verdict. >> >> >>The country needs to heal >> >> >>and reunite, and President >> >> >>Kerry will see to that. >> >> >Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military >officers) >> >who >> >> >will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >> >> Lincoln survived a whole >> >> lot worse — and it’s >> >> about time the dead wood >> >> who don’t know a >> >> qualified C-in-C when >> >> they see are gone. Good >> >> riddance! >> >> >How do you reunite >> >> >when many in the military don’t respect him for what he did *after* >the >> >war, >> >> >regardless of what he claimed to do during the war? >> >> Alarmist bullcrap — the >> >> military supposedly hated >> >> Clinton too, but when he >> >> said "march" they fucking >> >> marched. The more righty >> >> nutbags muster out, the >> >> better the military will >> >> get. >> >> >How do you reunite when >> >> >his own military service looks embellished by Kerry himself just to >> >further his >> >> >career? >> >> A bullshit accusation with >> >> no basis in fact — anyone, >> >> officer or enlisted, who’s >> >> stupid enough to believe it >> >> should start packing now. >> >> >How do you reunite when over 250 (a clear majority) of the people who >> >> >worked with Kerry don’t respect him, and have gone on the offensive to >> >keep him >> >> >out of office and want to keep him from becoming CinC? >> >> None of these people actually >> >> served under Kerry and most >> >> of them really don’t know >> >> Kerry from Adam. This is a >> >> bunch of bitter old men who >> >> are pissed at Kerry because >> >> he was a vet who told the >> >> truth about Vietnam that, >> >> the truth they *still* >> >> don’t want to face. >> >> >How do you reunite when >> >> >that prospective CinC voted to send them to war, but voted down >> >neccessary >> >> >armaments and supplies to keep them safe? >> >> Another bullshit accusation. >> >> Kerry know full well the >> >> measure would pass; he voted >> >> against it because the >> >> Dumber’nyuh refused to >> >> rescind the millionaire’s >> >> tax cut to fund it and >> >> instead financed the whole >> >> thing with funny money, aka >> >> deficit spending! It’s >> >> called a protest vote and >> >> its SOP in virtually every >> >> legislative body on the >> >> planet. >> >> >How do you reunite, when his own own >> >> >wife’s company is doing the exact things he is campaigning against? >> >> Teresa Heinz Kerry is the >> >> heir to her late first >> >> husband’s personal wealth, >> >> afaik she does not control >> >> or manage any for-profit >> >> company and has been a >> >> nearly full-time >> >> philanthropist for many >> >> years. >> >> >How do you >> >> >reunite when he is so far out of the mainstream in his ideals? >> >> No, he isn’t — he’s right >> >> where most Americans are, >> >> only slightly to the left >> >> of the most popular >> >> president since FDR, Bill >> >> Clinton. That little bit >> >> of leftward push will >> >> serve us well, since the >> >> current adminstration has >> >> been running headlong to >> >> the far right of most >> >> Americans’ ideals! >> >> [snipped near-incoherent far >> >> right screed for irrelevance] >> >> >>You have nothing to worry >> >> >>about — after Ashcroft, >> >> >>whoever Kerry chooses >> >> >>will be a *huge* >> >> >>improvement. Even Lard >> >> >>Vulva’s guns will be safe >> >> >>– or at least as safe as >> >> >>anything in his immediate >> >> >>vicinity can ever be. >> >> >Another bullshit statement … Kerry has gotten an "F" from the NRA >for >> >the >> >> >longest time I can remember. >> >> Your guns are safe, Tony. >> >> Trust me on that. The >> >> NRA can’t pound sand. >> >> >http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=161 >> >> >Put him in office, and he’ll do his best to delete the Second >Amendment. >> >> At least he understands the >> >> Second Amendment — the NRA >> >> doesn’t. >> >> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >> >> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >> >> -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- >> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >> -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>Bullshit … I personally know of at least 7 people (military officers) >who >>>>will resign their commissions if Kerry becomes President. >>>Lincoln survived a whole >>>lot worse — and it’s >>>about time the dead wood >>>who don’t know a >>>qualified C-in-C when >>>they see are gone. Good >>>riddance! >>SO you cansider an admitted war criminal a "qualified" CinC … it figures. >You are such a dumbshit, >Run out of points so you have to call names … figures. >Tony — tens of thousands >of Viet vets are "war >criminals" because their >leader put them into a >situation where it was >either commit war crimes >or risk their own deaths >or the destruction of >their units. If we >jailed every nominal >"war criminal" among Viet >vets, we’d need a whole >additional penal system >to hold them. The nature >of that war *created* war >criminals from decent GIs >thrown into untenable >circumstances. Kerry >*never* blamed the vets >and neither do it. >>>Alarmist bullcrap — the >>>military supposedly hated >>>Clinton too, but when he >>>said "march" they fucking >>>marched. >>As if they had a choice … >Exactly my point — the >military is there to >obey orders, and anyone >in any service who >doesn’t feel they can do >that should muster out >asap. >Here’s a clue from someone who was in the military to someone who obviously >doesn’t have a fucking clue about anything military (YOU!) … one doesn’t have >to obey unlawful orders … in fact, soldiers are encouraged *not* to obey >them. To commit a war crime is an unlawful order. To go into battle is a >lawful order … no comparison.

If you "go into battle" against unarmed civilians it’s a war crime — and in places like Vietnam and Iraq you can’t always know beforehand. That’s how nominal "war crimes" get committed by decent people — when you’re fighting against an out- of-uniform insurgency the enemy could be anyone at any time! >>I guess this is the part where you come in with the "more sensitive" war >part >>… I guess the military would get better if you wanted a bunch of pussies >who >>opted out of combat after getting scratched 3 times. >Spoken like a swabby who’s >never seen any combat — >from an elitist idiot who would run away from combat … if you mean bullets >flying around and bombs going off, no I haven’t.

That’s what "combat" means to me — what does it mean in your world? But I do have what is >considered to be a combat medal. >http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/afem.htm >"Authorized in 1961, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal is awarded to members >of all US Armed Forces for participation in US Military operations, operations >in direct support of the United Nations, or US operations of assistance for >friendly or foreign nations in danger from hostile actions." >I guarantee it’s more than you have.

That is correct. The military didn’t want me due (then unfixable) heart murmer — I reported, they sent me home. If it wasn’t for the ticker problem, I would have gone straight to OCS after basic based on my aptitude test scores. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>He may have told the truth of some things that happened, but he sure did >blow >>it up to a lot bigger of a problem than it actually was. My father, who was >>there 5 times longer than Kerry and actually on the ground, said that the >>closest he ever saw was a soldier butting a civilian in the face for rushing >>the soldier from behind, and grabbing on to his uniform. The soldier got >>spooked, but it’s hardly the kind of stuff that Kerry admitted to doing >>himself. >Your dad was either lucky >or he’s not telling you >everything he saw — many >Viet vets still can’t >tell the families what >they actually did and/or >saw. It’s very hard to >accept, let alone admit >to your loved ones. >Actually, it took him about 30 years for him to talk to me about it.

That’s not uncommon. Aside >from being in the thick of things over there, that was the same time that my >mother (his wife) died back here in the States. Pain was compounded for him, I >can guarantee you that.

I’m sorry for your loss, it must have been incredibly hard for him to carry on. >But, as far as VN is concerned, he is definitely more >open about that part of his life. Once it started, that wall fell pretty >quickly, for some reason.

Yeah, that’s the way it’s been for the vets I know — once the dam breaks, it just keeps coming. I lost eight friends from my high school class (‘65) in Vietnam and another in the Dominican Republic "police action." >[snipped presumptive > nonsense from a non- > combat sailor] >Don’t speak of what you do not know … you non combat elitist chicken shit. >Who’s being presumptive? >http://www.history.navy.mil/medals/afem.htm

That medal essentially says you went where you were ordered to go and stayed for a certain minimum number of days (30 consecutive or 60 non-consecutive). You won a glorified good conduct medal — thanks for your service, but you’ve got nothing to brag about. >Choke on it!

Right back atcha! Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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In: Legal Hunting

Japan Stakes Claim in Heart of Truck Country

Question:

I just lean the seat back a little more when wearing a ten gallon hat. Frank

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> So if Texans buy more trucks than anywhere else, why can’t they have a seat > low enough for me to wear mah hat? Those dang whiplash high back seats get > higher and higher and mah hat is gettin’ a upward curl on the back from > bumpin’ into the seat.

Response:

listened as Patrick Weaver contributed the following to humanity: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Joseph Oberlander" wrote >>washingtonpost.com >>Japan Stakes Claim in Heart of Truck Country >>By Greg Schneider >>Washington Post Staff Writer >>Sunday, April 18, 2004; Page A01 >Brand has nothing to do with it. Check out how many >old 1970’s era Land Cruisers and 1980’s era 4-Runners >are doing off-road events. Yes, Jeeps dominate, but >I rarely see a F150 or GMC there. > No but there are still a hell of a lot of origional broncos out there. It’s > a matter of what’s tough, cheap, and adaptable. The newer trucks aren’t. > They’re designed for soccer moms and drugstore cowboys. Someday soon someone > is going to come out with an actual TRUCK and clean up in the commercial and

The Chinese are into knock-off auto parts. — Daniel Rudy

Response:

So if Texans buy more trucks than anywhere else, why can’t they have a seat low enough for me to wear mah hat? Those dang whiplash high back seats get higher and higher and mah hat is gettin’ a upward curl on the back from bumpin’ into the seat.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> washingtonpost.com > Japan Stakes Claim in Heart of Truck Country > By Greg Schneider > Washington Post Staff Writer > Sunday, April 18, 2004; Page A01 > SAN ANTONIO — It’s a weekday afternoon at Cavender’s Boot City and > the parking lot is filled with pickup trucks. Store manager Brett > Emmons drives up in a truck of his own, a burgundy Ford F-150. He > walks across the lot with a stiff-backed cowboy bounce, taller than > life in his Atwood-brand straw hat and ostrich-skin boots. > Emmons keeps his customers looking like Texans with authentic > Western-wear brands, but lately his own eye has wandered. Not long ago > he checked out a Japanese-label pickup truck, a Nissan Titan. He > didn’t buy one, but he wouldn’t rule it out. > Across town, San Antonio police officer Art Garro makes a courtesy > call at Ottea Taxidermy. His cruiser is the only car in a lot crowded > with trucks, as several buddies gather inside amid deer racks and > freezers full of hides. Garro says he has a truck, too: a Ford F-350. > But he’s looked at a Toyota Tundra. "It’s an awesome truck," he says. > These are danger signs for the reign of the American full-size pickup > truck, the last bastion of unchallenged strength for U.S. automakers. > Import trucks are gaining credibility in Texas. Sales are beginning to > creep upward — in Dallas, for example, registrations of import trucks > have risen each of the last four years while domestic truck > registrations have declined, according to Freeman Publishers Inc., > which tracks auto trends there. > Texans buy more full-size pickups than people in any other market on > Earth. One out of every seven large pickups sold in the U.S. is > registered in Texas, and all but about 3.5 percent of those are > American brands. There’s such an emotional bond between Texans and the > trucks their fathers bought that outsiders have hardly tried to > compete over the years. > But all that’s changing. Nissan and Toyota, having already eaten up > U.S. market share in cars, SUVs and minivans, are bulling their way > into the half-ton pickup market. This hits Detroit where it hurts: > Pickups represent nearly half of all sales-related profits for the Big > Three automakers, said Sean McAlinden, chief economist for the Center > for Automotive Research in Michigan. > "Pretty much of the country thinks pickups are all Detroit knows how > to make anymore," McAlinden said. "They’re the closest thing to pure > Americana that’s actually made in the United States anymore, this side > of the ice cream cone." > Nissan has built a plant in Mississippi to produce its new Titan > truck, which it markets as a homegrown product and which is the first > Asian model to match the size and power of the most popular U.S. > trucks such as the Ford F-150 and Dodge Ram. > Toyota this year became the first Asian company allowed into a major > NASCAR racing event, the Craftsman Truck series. In two years the > company will debut a new full-size pickup built at an $800 million > plant just beginning construction in the heart of truck country: San > Antonio. > In response to that aggressive move, Ford went to San Antonio last > year to conduct the national rollout of its redesigned F-150 line, the > most popular vehicle in America and the key to Ford’s very survival. > Last year, Toyota’s top-selling passenger cars helped it pass Ford as > the world’s second biggest automaker. Even modest success for Nissan > and Toyota trucks could cost U.S. competitors more than $1 billion a > year in profits, one expert projects. But first the imports need to be > able to cut it in Texas. American truck makers will make their stand > in the home of the Alamo. > "We understand the competitive landscape has just gotten more crowded > and is going to be more intense going forward," said Doug Scott, truck > group marketing manager for Ford. "I fully expect the buyer in Texas > — and elsewhere — is going to look at and consider the Titan and > whatever Toyota has to offer. . . . So we have to be on our game, and > that’s what we intend to do." > Brand Loyalty > Bruce Groda is one Texan Ford doesn’t have to worry about. Sauntering > out of Hermann Sons Steakhouse in the town of Hondo after lunch, > toothpick rolling around his mouth and arms bulging out of a plaid > shirt with the sleeves ripped off, Groda leaves no doubt about his > loyalties. > "I’m a Ford man from way back when," he says, opening the door to a > 1994 F-350 with more than 260,000 miles on the odometer. "I’m not too > much on any damn foreign vehicles. . . . Not interested. Don’t need > ‘em. Not American." > Groda says he uses his truck for "hog hunting, deer hunting, chasing > women and drinking beer," then smiles and points to the "Dozer > Service" logo on his door. "I use it for hauling dozers and > equipment." > Groda represents a core of old-school drivers who are either rabidly > committed to American brands or need super-heavy-duty, one-ton work > trucks for towing things like bulldozers. Nissan and Toyota so far > have no plans to build one-ton trucks, though that could change if the > half-tons catch on. > About 30 percent of all truck drivers were hard-core American > loyalists in market surveys three years ago, but that number has been > falling and now is probably below 20 percent, said Larry Dominique, > Nissan’s chief product specialist for the Titan. > That still leaves a large market open to imports. Americans bought a > total of 2.3 million full-size trucks last year — up from 1 million > just a decade ago. Such trucks make up one of only two categories of > vehicle that sold more in 2003 than the year before, along with > car-like "crossover" SUVs, said Paul Taylor, chief economist for the > National Association of Automobile Dealers. > The numbers are forcing Toyota to get serious about full-size trucks > after years of products that came up just short in size and power. > Today, nearly half of Toyota’s small-truck buyers are fleeing to > bigger sizes, said Ernest Bastien, vice president of the vehicle > operations group for Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. > The company rolled out a full-size pickup concept at this year’s North > American International Auto Show in Detroit, a 19-foot-long behemoth > that executives said was intended to look like a fist at the end of a > muscular arm. "Big, bold and bad," is how Bastien put it — quite a > departure for the company that gave the world the gas-electric hybrid > Prius. > That concept truck is a hint of what the company will build in San > Antonio. "We’re really unabashed about saying we want to sell more > pickup trucks in Texas," said Dan Sieger, spokesman for Toyota > manufacturing. "We hope to change their perception in Texas of what > our trucks are all about." > Nissan chose a similar strategy, building its factory in the South — > Mississippi — and creating a truck aimed specifically at the nation’s > top-sellers. The company’s U.S. side had to convince headquarters that > Nissan couldn’t afford to ignore such a juicy part of the American > marketplace, Dominique said. Full-size-truck buyers spend a bigger > percentage of income on their trucks than buyers of any other type of > vehicle, he said, often adding $2,000 in accessories to their $35,000 > purchases — creating huge profit for the makers. > Nissan spent years surveying domestic truck buyers and tried to meet > or better U.S. trucks on every key point — size, horsepower and > towing capacity. "Credibility was the number one thing on our mind," > Dominique said. "We can’t change the fact that it says Nissan on the > front . . . so we felt we had to take away all of the excuses that > people would have to reject us." > So far, the results for Nissan have been mixed. The Titan has gotten > rave reviews, but sales have gotten off to a slow start, with only > 16,279 sold since it debuted in December. Nissan says it is just > ramping up and still expects to hit its goal of 100,000 for the year > — a volume that could cost domestic automakers at least $1 billion in > annual profits, said University of Maryland business professor Peter > Morici. > Fading Bias > The big U.S. companies have been girding for battle. General Motors > has been updating its truck line annually since 1999. > "Nobody in our place is waving a white flag," said Gary White, the GM > North America vice president who oversees full-size trucks. White > argues that the domestic truck market is in better shape than the > market for cars was in the 1980s and ’90s, when Japanese and Europeans > quickly took over with products deemed superior. Today’s American > truck makers have loyal customers and a huge head start, selling more > trucks in a month than the imports sell in a year, he said. > Domestic automakers also have a far more extensive dealer network than > the imports. For example, while there are several Nissan and Toyota > dealerships in San Antonio, there are not any in seven surrounding > counties . But there are numerous small towns with old domestic > dealerships, such as Hondo, 35 miles to the southwest, which has Ford > and Chevrolet retailers serving a population of fewer than 8,000. > That’s not stopping people from heading to the city to buy imports. > Behind the counter of the local Parts Plus auto supply store, where > customers sit on vinyl stools to watch traffic go by, owner Ruben > Hernandez said he sees an increasing number of foreign trucks. "Most > are younger people," said Hernandez, a Hondo native who has run the > shop 12 years. "I’m beginning to see some Toyota

Response:

> washingtonpost.com > Japan Stakes Claim in Heart of Truck Country > By Greg Schneider > Washington Post Staff Writer > Sunday, April 18, 2004; Page A01

Brand has nothing to do with it. Check out how many old 1970’s era Land Cruisers and 1980’s era 4-Runners are doing off-road events. Yes, Jeeps dominate, but I rarely see a F150 or GMC there.

Response:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote > washingtonpost.com > Japan Stakes Claim in Heart of Truck Country > By Greg Schneider > Washington Post Staff Writer > Sunday, April 18, 2004; Page A01 > Brand has nothing to do with it. Check out how many > old 1970’s era Land Cruisers and 1980’s era 4-Runners > are doing off-road events. Yes, Jeeps dominate, but > I rarely see a F150 or GMC there.

No but there are still a hell of a lot of origional broncos out there. It’s a matter of what’s tough, cheap, and adaptable. The newer trucks aren’t. They’re designed for soccer moms and drugstore cowboys. Someday soon someone is going to come out with an actual TRUCK and clean up in the commercial and

Response:

washingtonpost.com Japan Stakes Claim in Heart of Truck Country By Greg Schneider Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, April 18, 2004; Page A01 SAN ANTONIO — It’s a weekday afternoon at Cavender’s Boot City and the parking lot is filled with pickup trucks. Store manager Brett Emmons drives up in a truck of his own, a burgundy Ford F-150. He walks across the lot with a stiff-backed cowboy bounce, taller than life in his Atwood-brand straw hat and ostrich-skin boots. Emmons keeps his customers looking like Texans with authentic Western-wear brands, but lately his own eye has wandered. Not long ago he checked out a Japanese-label pickup truck, a Nissan Titan. He didn’t buy one, but he wouldn’t rule it out. Across town, San Antonio police officer Art Garro makes a courtesy call at Ottea Taxidermy. His cruiser is the only car in a lot crowded with trucks, as several buddies gather inside amid deer racks and freezers full of hides. Garro says he has a truck, too: a Ford F-350. But he’s looked at a Toyota Tundra. "It’s an awesome truck," he says. These are danger signs for the reign of the American full-size pickup truck, the last bastion of unchallenged strength for U.S. automakers. Import trucks are gaining credibility in Texas. Sales are beginning to creep upward — in Dallas, for example, registrations of import trucks have risen each of the last four years while domestic truck registrations have declined, according to Freeman Publishers Inc., which tracks auto trends there. Texans buy more full-size pickups than people in any other market on Earth. One out of every seven large pickups sold in the U.S. is registered in Texas, and all but about 3.5 percent of those are American brands. There’s such an emotional bond between Texans and the trucks their fathers bought that outsiders have hardly tried to compete over the years. But all that’s changing. Nissan and Toyota, having already eaten up U.S. market share in cars, SUVs and minivans, are bulling their way into the half-ton pickup market. This hits Detroit where it hurts: Pickups represent nearly half of all sales-related profits for the Big Three automakers, said Sean McAlinden, chief economist for the Center for Automotive Research in Michigan. "Pretty much of the country thinks pickups are all Detroit knows how to make anymore," McAlinden said. "They’re the closest thing to pure Americana that’s actually made in the United States anymore, this side of the ice cream cone." Nissan has built a plant in Mississippi to produce its new Titan truck, which it markets as a homegrown product and which is the first Asian model to match the size and power of the most popular U.S. trucks such as the Ford F-150 and Dodge Ram. Toyota this year became the first Asian company allowed into a major NASCAR racing event, the Craftsman Truck series. In two years the company will debut a new full-size pickup built at an $800 million plant just beginning construction in the heart of truck country: San Antonio. In response to that aggressive move, Ford went to San Antonio last year to conduct the national rollout of its redesigned F-150 line, the most popular vehicle in America and the key to Ford’s very survival. Last year, Toyota’s top-selling passenger cars helped it pass Ford as the world’s second biggest automaker. Even modest success for Nissan and Toyota trucks could cost U.S. competitors more than $1 billion a year in profits, one expert projects. But first the imports need to be able to cut it in Texas. American truck makers will make their stand in the home of the Alamo. "We understand the competitive landscape has just gotten more crowded and is going to be more intense going forward," said Doug Scott, truck group marketing manager for Ford. "I fully expect the buyer in Texas — and elsewhere — is going to look at and consider the Titan and whatever Toyota has to offer. . . . So we have to be on our game, and that’s what we intend to do." Brand Loyalty Bruce Groda is one Texan Ford doesn’t have to worry about. Sauntering out of Hermann Sons Steakhouse in the town of Hondo after lunch, toothpick rolling around his mouth and arms bulging out of a plaid shirt with the sleeves ripped off, Groda leaves no doubt about his loyalties. "I’m a Ford man from way back when," he says, opening the door to a 1994 F-350 with more than 260,000 miles on the odometer. "I’m not too much on any damn foreign vehicles. . . . Not interested. Don’t need ‘em. Not American." Groda says he uses his truck for "hog hunting, deer hunting, chasing women and drinking beer," then smiles and points to the "Dozer Service" logo on his door. "I use it for hauling dozers and equipment." Groda represents a core of old-school drivers who are either rabidly committed to American brands or need super-heavy-duty, one-ton work trucks for towing things like bulldozers. Nissan and Toyota so far have no plans to build one-ton trucks, though that could change if the half-tons catch on. About 30 percent of all truck drivers were hard-core American loyalists in market surveys three years ago, but that number has been falling and now is probably below 20 percent, said Larry Dominique, Nissan’s chief product specialist for the Titan. That still leaves a large market open to imports. Americans bought a total of 2.3 million full-size trucks last year — up from 1 million just a decade ago. Such trucks make up one of only two categories of vehicle that sold more in 2003 than the year before, along with car-like "crossover" SUVs, said Paul Taylor, chief economist for the National Association of Automobile Dealers. The numbers are forcing Toyota to get serious about full-size trucks after years of products that came up just short in size and power. Today, nearly half of Toyota’s small-truck buyers are fleeing to bigger sizes, said Ernest Bastien, vice president of the vehicle operations group for Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. The company rolled out a full-size pickup concept at this year’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit, a 19-foot-long behemoth that executives said was intended to look like a fist at the end of a muscular arm. "Big, bold and bad," is how Bastien put it — quite a departure for the company that gave the world the gas-electric hybrid Prius. That concept truck is a hint of what the company will build in San Antonio. "We’re really unabashed about saying we want to sell more pickup trucks in Texas," said Dan Sieger, spokesman for Toyota manufacturing. "We hope to change their perception in Texas of what our trucks are all about." Nissan chose a similar strategy, building its factory in the South — Mississippi — and creating a truck aimed specifically at the nation’s top-sellers. The company’s U.S. side had to convince headquarters that Nissan couldn’t afford to ignore such a juicy part of the American marketplace, Dominique said. Full-size-truck buyers spend a bigger percentage of income on their trucks than buyers of any other type of vehicle, he said, often adding $2,000 in accessories to their $35,000 purchases — creating huge profit for the makers. Nissan spent years surveying domestic truck buyers and tried to meet or better U.S. trucks on every key point — size, horsepower and towing capacity. "Credibility was the number one thing on our mind," Dominique said. "We can’t change the fact that it says Nissan on the front . . . so we felt we had to take away all of the excuses that people would have to reject us." So far, the results for Nissan have been mixed. The Titan has gotten rave reviews, but sales have gotten off to a slow start, with only 16,279 sold since it debuted in December. Nissan says it is just ramping up and still expects to hit its goal of 100,000 for the year — a volume that could cost domestic automakers at least $1 billion in annual profits, said University of Maryland business professor Peter Morici. Fading Bias The big U.S. companies have been girding for battle. General Motors has been updating its truck line annually since 1999. "Nobody in our place is waving a white flag," said Gary White, the GM North America vice president who oversees full-size trucks. White argues that the domestic truck market is in better shape than the market for cars was in the 1980s and ’90s, when Japanese and Europeans quickly took over with products deemed superior. Today’s American truck makers have loyal customers and a huge head start, selling more trucks in a month than the imports sell in a year, he said. Domestic automakers also have a far more extensive dealer network than the imports. For example, while there are several Nissan and Toyota dealerships in San Antonio, there are not any in seven surrounding counties . But there are numerous small towns with old domestic dealerships, such as Hondo, 35 miles to the southwest, which has Ford and Chevrolet retailers serving a population of fewer than 8,000. That’s not stopping people from heading to the city to buy imports. Behind the counter of the local Parts Plus auto supply store, where customers sit on vinyl stools to watch traffic go by, owner Ruben Hernandez said he sees an increasing number of foreign trucks. "Most are younger people," said Hernandez, a Hondo native who has run the shop 12 years. "I’m beginning to see some Toyota trucks around, getting some calls for filters and such. They’ll probably get their share [of the market]. They’ve got some pretty nice-looking products." Back in San Antonio, Toyota trucks are showing up in more driveways, with registrations increasing to 6.3 percent of the local market in 2003 from 5 percent in 2000, according to the Spindle Report, which compiles local vehicle statistics. Last month the city sold more Tundras — the biggest pickup currently made by Toyota — than any other location in a five-state sales region, said Dale Hall, Toyota’s district sales manager. At South Texas Outfitters, which takes $40,000 trucks and converts them into $80,000 … read more »

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In: Deer Hunting

Why EVERYBODY hates the Canadians

Question:

Even after decades of world public condemnation and outrage, Canada continues annually to club and shoot hundreds of thousands of harp and hooded seals, two species it reduces to the category of "natural resources" rather than sentient beings. In fact, the Canadian government subsidizes the seal-hunting industry, making it easier for hunters to kill more of the animals. In 2002, with relatively little Canadian public outcry, the Canadian government allowed the most massive slaughter of marine mammals on its shores since 1967. The reported kill was more than 307,000 harp seals

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In: Canada Hunting

Warwick Black label strings (5 string set)

Question:

I’ve run across this place while hunting Maxima Golds…. http://saitenkatalog.de/catalog/default.php/cPath/66_68/sort/3a/page/…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t bother…MAD are out of business. > No new Warwick distributor appointed > yet AFAIK. > — > Clive Norris > Selectron (UK) Ltd > Musical Equipment Distribution > www.espguitars.co.uk > www.espshop.co.uk > www.emgpickups.co.uk > www.emginc.com > www.whirlwindusa.com > www.deanmarkley.com > www.mightymite.com > www.tube-shop.com > OK, black label strings are like gold dust here in the UK. Even the usual > online string stores are finding them hard to get in stock. > I really like these strings, nice feel, tight tension, bright & zingy, but > still deep & roiunded, and the tapered B string. > Can anyone recommend another brand and ‘model’ string that behave and have > the same above features as the black labels? > Greg > PS, I might get in touch with M.A.D. (the UK distributer) and see if I can > get some direct from them. > — > Be excellent to one another

Response:

> OK, black label strings are like gold dust here in the UK. Even the usual > online string stores are finding them hard to get in stock. > I really like these strings, nice feel, tight tension, bright & zingy, but > still deep & roiunded, and the tapered B string. > Can anyone recommend another brand and ‘model’ string that behave and have > the same above features as the black labels? > Greg

Greg, I’ve currently got Blacks and Ken Smith Rock Master’s on my basses and I must say that I prefer the Smiths. They both try to do the same thing but only one of them gets there AFAIC. I can’t vouch for the 5 string sets but if the 4s are anything to go by – they’ll be spot on for you. cb

Response:

I’m in the same boat as you! I got hold of some rotosound strings (can’t remember the exact type – 5 string stainless steel) and they’re similar. Not tapered B string tho. Infact finding tapered B string strings seems pretty tough in itself. IF you really want the Black Label strings, there is ONE way you can get them for sure – go out and by a new warwick bass Daniel C. — http://www11.brinkster.com/ddeck http://www24.brinkster.com/rampaccess http://www.soundclick.com/rampuk

Response:

I like Black Labels too but they are hard to source. Recently I’ve tried Ashdown’s ‘Wide Boys’ and they perform quite well, even getting better once they go through that weird period where they start to sound dull and out of tune. They come in a nifty round tin too that you can return for re-cycling and earn a

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In: Hunting Equipment

OT: What did Dubya do in '72?

Question:

George W. Bush’s Lost Year in 1972 Alabama By Glynn Wilson Feb 11, 2004 http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_5089.shtml The result of an investigation into George W. Bush’s lost year in 1972 reveals a cocky privileged son who used his family connections to avoid military service in Vietnam and spend seven months in Alabama partying. He clearly skipped out on National Guard duty and avoided a mandatory drug test, all while learning the politics of "dirty tricks," deception and coded racism in the land of George Wallace. It was the year Wallace, the spunky Alabama governor and presidential candidate, was gunned down in a Maryland parking lot, the year of the Watergate break in and the beginning of the end for "Tricky Dick" Nixon. It was also the last year for segregationists to openly fight integration of the public schools, a time when racism went underground in American politics in the form of a "Dixie Strategy." And it was the beginning of a major political realignment that transformed the American South from a one-party Democratic stronghold into a solid block for the GOP. Bush made the move to Alabama in May to work on Winton "Red" Blount’s campaign for the U.S. Senate against Southern Democrat John Sparkman. The lessons of that year were not lost on Bush or his political adviser Karl Rove, who also cut his political teeth in 1972. Their path to electoral success is a lesson in itself about the state of American Democracy, an issue suitable for an H.L. Mencken-style analysis. Privileged Son Those who encountered Bush in Alabama remember him as an affable social drinker who acted younger than his 26 years. Referred to as George Bush, Jr. by newspapers in those days, sources say he also tended to show up late every day, around noon or one, at Blount’s campaign headquarters in Montgomery. They say Bush would prop his cowboy boots on a desk and brag about how much he drank the night before. They also remember Bush’s stories about how the New Haven, Connecticut police always let him go, after he told them his name, when they stopped him "all the time" for driving drunk as a student at Yale in the late 1960s. Bush told this story to others working in the campaign "what seemed like a hundred times," says Red Blount’s nephew C. Murphy Archibald, now an attorney in Charlotte, N.C., who also worked on the Blount campaign and said he had "vivid memories" of that time. "He would laugh uproariously as though there was something funny about this. To me, that was pretty memorable, because here he is, a number of years out of college, talking about this to people he doesn’t know," Archibald said. "He just struck me as a guy who really had an idea of himself as very much a child of privilege, that he wasn’t operating by the same rules." During this period Bush often socialized with the young ladies of Huntington College, located in the Old Cloverdale historic neighborhood where he stayed. Bush even dated Nixon’s daughter Tricia in the early 1970s, according to newspaper accounts. Bush was described as "young and personable" by the Montgomery Independent society columnist, and seen dancing at the Whitley Hotel on election night November 7 with "the blonde, pretty Emily Marks." During the 2000 campaign, the Boston Globe named Marks as one of Bush’s former girlfriends. But she and several other women who dated him during that time refused to say anything bad on the record about Bush, now a sitting president. Many of those who came into close contact with Bush say he liked to drink beer and Jim Beam whiskey, and to eat fist-fulls of peanuts, and Executive burgers, at the Cloverdale Grill. They also say he liked to sneak out back for a joint of marijuana or into the head for a line of cocaine. The newspapers that year are full of stories about the scourge of cocaine from Vietnam and China, much of it imported by the French. (Remember the French Connection?) According to Cathy Donelson, a daughter of old Montgomery but one of the toughest investigative reporters to work for newspapers in Alabama over the years, the 1960s came to Old Cloverdale in the early 1970s about the time of Bush’s arrival. "We did a lot of drugs in those days," she said. "The 1970s are a blur." The top radio hits in 1972 included "My Ding-A-Ling" by Chuck Berry, "Honky Cat" by Elton John, "Long Cool Woman" by the Hollies and "Feeling Alright" by Joe Cocker, along with "I Am Woman" by Helen Reddy, "Heart of Gold" by Neil Young, "Ben" by Michael Jackson and "Black and White" by Three Dog Night. It was that kind of year. To "Blount’s Belles," a group of young Republican women and Montgomery debutantes working for the Blount campaign, Bush is remembered showing up in "denim" and cowboy boots. To one who talked about those times but requested anonymity, "We thought he was to die for." Winton Bount’s son Tom, an accomplished architect who designed the Shakespeare Festival Theater in Montgomery, remembers well his encounter with Bush. He recently co-produced and underwrote a telling movie called The Trip, set in the period from 1973 to the early 1980s, about a young gay Texan and his conservative Republican lover. The son known as "Tommy" said he ended up in the same car with Bush, with Bush driving, on election night. "He was an attractive person, kind of a ‘frat boy,’" Blount said. "I didn’t like him." He remembers thinking to himself, "This guy thinks he is such a cuntsman, God’s gift to women," he said. "He was all duded up in his cowboy boots. It was sort of annoying seeing all these people who thought they were hot shit just because they were from Texas." Bush also made an impression on the "Blue-Haired Platoon," a group of older Republican Women working for Blount. Behind his back they called him "the Texas souffl

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In: Legal Hunting

Your #1 Guide To Everything Hunting

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Response:

Response:

Response:

Response: