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Deer vs 223 caliber rounds
Question:
Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs southern white tail deer? — Sincerely, Joe Ricke Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs >southern white tail deer?
Personally I have nothing against a patient and competent shooter (Which I consider myself to be.) using either .222 Rem. or the .223. Certainly a 22-250 will serve. Since I had a .222 Rem., I skipped the .223 and got a 22-250. I’ve made several *instant* kills with the .222. And while we are at it a 20 ga. shotgun slug will turn a deer downside up too. Bill Van Houten (USA Ret) "No matter how hard you try, you can’t throw a potato chip very far." "Linus" Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.hunting Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:21 PM > Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs > southern white tail deer? While the vast majority of those who frequent this newsgroup think a .224 centerfile rifle is way light for whitetail-sized game animals the Texas Trophy Hunters Association (TTHA) actively touts it’s effectiveness via a cartridge they like to call the .224 TTH. It is nothing more than the 6mm Remington necked down to take a .224 caliber bullet but with a fast 8 twist barrel to handle heavier 55-75 grain bullets. That said, take note that most likely it shoves a 70-80 grain bullet down the pike faster than a .223 would a 55 grain projectile. But, among those bullets deemed suitable for deer-sized animals are the 55 gr Trophy Bonded, 64 grain WW Powerpoint, 53 gr Barnes X, and some others in the 75 and 80 gr weight class that escapes me. In fact, Federal offers the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw in their .223 Premium line of cartridges. If your rifle is the standard 14 twist found in most factory rigs 55 grains will likely be the heaviest bullet you will be able to stabilize although I believe Savages have a 12 twist. Winchester loads the 64 gr PP in a factory offering .223 but unless you have the Savage or a custom tube on your .223 you’re out of luck. They also show a 55 gr. SP as a loaded round. If you roll your own and have the twist there are component bullets from Speer (70 gr Sptizer), Hornady (55 gr SP), the Barnes (53 gr X), Nosler (60 gr Partition), and Sierra (55 and 63 gr SMP). Winchester offers the 64 gr PP as a component as well. I’m sure I’ve overlooked some, too. David J. McBride Houston, Texas Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs >southern white tail deer?
FWIW .223 is legal in Scotland for Roe deer (max weight about 60lbs). I’ve carried a .223 on a number of occasions but haven’t yet brought home the bacon. But people who have used the round say it works fine. — Steve Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
A neighbor of my family that lives up the street hunted on our farm this past fall. It was his 15 year old son’s second year of hunting, and last year he didn’t see a deer. The first day of the Kentucky Youth Hunt this year, he shot a very large 12-pointer with a 21-inch inside spread at(he and his father said) about 35 yards. He was using a .223 H&R Handi-Rifle with heavy barrel and Hornady V-Max factory ammuntion. Dropped the bucks in it’s tracks, with no external damage to the hide or meat. Upon dressing, his dad said the heart and the lungs were darn near non-existant. Needless to say, the bullet didn’t pass though. As a side note, I shot a smaller(but still pretty good size) 8-point later that fall with my Remington 742 .30-06, using Federal Premium 165gr PSPs. Still ran 30 yards after the shot, just to roll another 20 down a steep hill. When I dressed it, half of the heart was gone, but that didn’t drop the deer at the point of the shot. ..223 is way on the lower end of a deer caliber, but if you don’t have access to any other caliber rifle, make SURE you use good ammunition, and can place your shot where it needs to be. I hear the 55gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and the 55gr Barnes X-Bullet are good on whitetail. I know you can buy the Bear Claw bullet in a factory round from Federal. Most importantly though, SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. If you can’t hit point-of-aim, you don’t need to hunt with any caliber. Bigger caliber misses just make for more wounded deer. Hope this helps, Paul Lucas Lexington, KY > Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs > southern white tail deer? > — > Sincerely, > Joe Ricke > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs > southern white tail deer?
I have a friend that uses one every year. 16 years running, 16 deer. He has one suggestion. DON’T do body shots. He loads Sierra sp-sx, Speer TNT, or Nosler ballistic tips up to 33-3500 fps and does neck shots and all 16 of the deer he has shot fell directly in their tracks, no running. He says it has something to do with cutting of the signals from the brain to the legs even if you don’t break the spine. After seeing a couple of deer run off after being hit in the heart I guess he has something. Btw, one was with the .223 and the other a .300 mag. We found the deer later. The .223 exploded the heart but didn’t leave the deer the .300 went all the way through. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
I have loaded 80 gr. MatchKings and they’re great. Must be single fed because of the length, but unlike the Berger 80gr. VLD (very low drag) are not tempremental about seating on the lands. The 69 gr. is great out to about 200 yrds or so (my favorite bullet, too) and will fit into the mag. I am told, but have no first-hand data, that the 72 gr 75 grain Hornadys will also fit in the mag (just about) and are better than the 69 gr. MatchKings because of the higher ballistic cooefficient of the heavier bullet. The key is the 300 yard mark and the amount of wind affecting your shot. Yale >Yep! Sierra 80 gr. HPBT MatchKing for 600 yards (AR15 MUST be single >fed – too long for mag. >77 grn. MatchKing for 200 to 300 yards ( will fit mags.) >Haven’t tried the 69s yet. But suppose to be great for 100 yards. >Don’t if you are shooting close or far. >Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
* * * * * There is a serious tendency toward capitalism by the well-to-do peasants. — Mao Yale Robert Brown Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
Yep! Sierra 80 gr. HPBT MatchKing for 600 yards (AR15 MUST be single fed – too long for mag. 77 grn. MatchKing for 200 to 300 yards ( will fit mags.) Haven’t tried the 69s yet. But suppose to be great for 100 yards. Don’t if you are shooting close or far. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
The .223 will take down Southern deer but I wouldn’t recommend it’s use to the beginner or novice. Here the skill of great shot placement is key. You need to practice till perfect for that kill shot. The question you need to ask yourself is ‘do you feel lucky?’ Really, the question you need to ask yourself is ‘Why would I want to use a .223 with all the more suitable calibers on the market?’ If you’re out after varmint and small game at the same time, maybe this is the caliber for your hunt. But if you are only out after deer and you only get one chance, is it the caliber for your hunt? What if the big swamp buck jumps at 30 yards and starts to high-tail it? Can you dispatch him swiftly on a dead run with a .223 or did you just loose the next world record? Lot’s of ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ and I’ve rambled long enough… Ed www.HotSpotHunting.com www.HotSpotGuides.com Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip> > ..223 is way on the lower end of a deer caliber, but if you don’t have access > to any other caliber rifle, make SURE you use good ammunition, and can place > your shot where it needs to be. I hear the 55gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and > the 55gr Barnes X-Bullet are good on whitetail. I know you can buy the Bear > Claw bullet in a factory round from Federal. Most importantly though, SHOT > PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. If you can’t hit point-of-aim, you don’t need to > hunt with any caliber. Bigger caliber misses just make for more wounded deer.
"Bigger caliber misses just make for more wounded deer." ??? And a "miss" with a smaller caliber kills ‘em dead? ;-) Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> I’ve had very good results with the Winchester 64gr PP plus. > I was concerned about the twist factor as mentioned but was pleasantly > surprised that I was getting 1-1.5 inch groups out of my Ruger Ultra > Same or better groups than some other 50-55gr ammo that I have tried. > Shot a doe and two bucks last year. None went further than 20 yards and > three were complete pass throughs with heavy inside damage. Behind the > shoulder shots of course. > Shot placement is the key with such a light caliber and of course don’t > the varmint style bullets.
What does the southern white tail weigh on average? I have had experience with a 222rem on Impala and Fallow Deer using Hornady 55grain spitzers. I have found that on close range shots under 75meters behind the shoulder they produce spectacular one shot kills but the bullet disintegrates completely and causes excessive meat damage. But from 120 to 200m the bullet performs flawlesly, perfect mushroom and minimal meat damage, nine times out of ten you find the bullet lying against the skin on the opposite side. My verdict, with the load that I use if it is under 75meters you are tempting the gods if you go for a body shot but from 120 up to 200 you should be safe. Dan Hockly Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> aimed between the eyes. It was a solid point and she died > instantly. Thank God. I was certainly wishing I had something more > "definite"!
I think instantly dead is pretty darn definite! I, myself, am trying to hold on indefinitely! The skull plate is pretty tough and slopped, just be careful you don’t glance one off the skull and it ricochets somewhere… Ed www.HotSpotHunting.com www.HotSpotGuides.com Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> aimed between the eyes. It was a solid point and she died >> instantly. Thank God. I was certainly wishing I had something more >> "definite"! >I think instantly dead is pretty darn definite! I, myself, am trying to hold >on indefinitely! The skull plate is pretty tough and slopped, just be >careful you don’t glance one off the skull and it ricochets somewhere… >Yeah, good advice. I checked the angles and so on (this was down in a >little valley, up against a bank). It was a safe shot… >I would have rather had a .223, or something. I was really worried that >I’d flub it and have to shoot her several times. She was looking me right >in the eye and and seemed to know that I was "IT" for her. Poor critter. >I’ve now killed two deer. That was the first. The second was a >more standard heart-lung shot at 50 yards <g>! >-jeff
Years ago when I was farming I had a hereford-angus cross cow that went down while berthing. They have a tough skull plate! A solid .22 LR bounced right off when I tried to put her out of her misery. It was not a pleasant task as one always hates to have to put down an animal but it was made even more unpleasant by almost being hit by the ricochet! >Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>>Enough with the big bores; has anyone here taken deer with the .17 >Remington? >A friend of mine shot one with a .22LR when he was a kid, a head shot from >several inches. The deer went into the barn with the milk cows and jumped >a gate on the back side to get out. Skip was sitting on the gate with >his .22. Probably 50 years ago, in Minnesota.
I had to shoot a doe with a .22 last year; she had been hit by a car moments before and was badly injured. I shot her from about 30 feet and aimed between the eyes. It was a solid point and she died instantly. Thank God. I was certainly wishing I had something more "definite"! -jeff Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>> aimed between the eyes. It was a solid point and she died > instantly. Thank God. I was certainly wishing I had something more > "definite"! >I think instantly dead is pretty darn definite! I, myself, am trying to hold >on indefinitely! The skull plate is pretty tough and slopped, just be >careful you don’t glance one off the skull and it ricochets somewhere…
Yeah, good advice. I checked the angles and so on (this was down in a little valley, up against a bank). It was a safe shot… I would have rather had a .223, or something. I was really worried that I’d flub it and have to shoot her several times. She was looking me right in the eye and and seemed to know that I was "IT" for her. Poor critter. I’ve now killed two deer. That was the first. The second was a more standard heart-lung shot at 50 yards <g>! -jeff Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
> The .223 will take down Southern deer but I wouldn’t recommend it’s use to > the beginner or novice. Here the skill of great shot placement is key. You > need to practice till perfect for that kill shot.
Enough with the big bores; has anyone here taken deer with the .17 Remington? Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>Enough with the big bores; has anyone here taken deer with the .17 >Remington?
Had an email conversation with a guy who has shot pronghorn with the .17 Rem – head shots — Steve Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
>> The .223 will take down Southern deer but I wouldn’t recommend it’s use to > the beginner or novice. Here the skill of great shot placement is key. You > need to practice till perfect for that kill shot. >Enough with the big bores; has anyone here taken deer with the .17 >Remington?
A friend of mine shot one with a .22LR when he was a kid, a head shot from several inches. The deer went into the barn with the milk cows and jumped a gate on the back side to get out. Skip was sitting on the gate with his .22. Probably 50 years ago, in Minnesota. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
I’ve had very good results with the Winchester 64gr PP plus. I was concerned about the twist factor as mentioned but was pleasantly surprised that I was getting 1-1.5 inch groups out of my Ruger Ultra Light. Same or better groups than some other 50-55gr ammo that I have tried. Shot a doe and two bucks last year. None went further than 20 yards and all three were complete pass throughs with heavy inside damage. Behind the shoulder shots of course. Shot placement is the key with such a light caliber and of course don’t use the varmint style bullets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> —– Original Message —– > Newsgroups: rec.hunting > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:21 PM > Anybody got a pro or con opinion on the suitability of a .223 round vs > southern white tail deer? > While the vast majority of those who frequent this newsgroup think a > .224 centerfile rifle is way light for whitetail-sized game animals the > Texas Trophy Hunters Association (TTHA) actively touts it’s effectiveness > via a cartridge they like to call the .224 TTH. It is nothing more than the > 6mm Remington necked down to take a .224 caliber bullet but with a fast 8 > twist barrel to handle heavier 55-75 grain bullets. That said, take note > that most likely it shoves a 70-80 grain bullet down the pike faster than a > .223 would a 55 grain projectile. > But, among those bullets deemed suitable for deer-sized animals are the > 55 gr Trophy Bonded, 64 grain WW Powerpoint, 53 gr Barnes X, and some others > in the 75 and 80 gr weight class that escapes me. In fact, Federal offers > the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw in their .223 Premium line of cartridges. If > your rifle is the standard 14 twist found in most factory rigs 55 grains > will likely be the heaviest bullet you will be able to stabilize although I > believe Savages have a 12 twist. Winchester loads the 64 gr PP in a factory > offering .223 but unless you have the Savage or a custom tube on your .223 > you’re out of luck. They also show a 55 gr. SP as a loaded round. > If you roll your own and have the twist there are component bullets from > Speer (70 gr Sptizer), Hornady (55 gr SP), the Barnes (53 gr X), Nosler (60 > gr Partition), and Sierra (55 and 63 gr SMP). Winchester offers the 64 gr > PP as a component as well. I’m sure I’ve overlooked some, too. > David J. McBride > Houston, Texas > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > ..223 is way on the lower end of a deer caliber, but if you don’t have > access > to any other caliber rifle, make SURE you use good ammunition, and can > place > your shot where it needs to be. I hear the 55gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw > and > the 55gr Barnes X-Bullet are good on whitetail. I know you can buy the > Bear > Claw bullet in a factory round from Federal. Most importantly though, > SHOT > PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. If you can’t hit point-of-aim, you don’t need to > hunt with any caliber. Bigger caliber misses just make for more wounded > deer. > "Bigger caliber misses just make for more wounded deer." ??? > And a "miss" with a smaller caliber kills ‘em dead? ;-)
Yeah, you got me there. I didn’t realize until after I had re-read my post that a sentence like that sounds pretty dumb. Oh well, I thunk I communicated that thar point mo’ better than anybody else. Wouldn’t you agree? Paul Lucas > Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: > http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/
Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at: http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/