Hunting House » Deer Hunting » RE 223 for 130 Lb white tails
RE 223 for 130 Lb white tails
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would rather use a .22 LR than most .223 loads. At least with the .22 >LR you get better penetratin than a .223 load that is going to (and I >know everyone will b***h about this comment) fragment on impact and blow >off a big wad of hair and not do much else. Now a .223 load like a >Nosler Partition or something similar might be OK…. > I agree that the .223 is poor medicine for deer, but…*fragment on > impact and blow off a big wad of hair and not do much else*… You > obviously have not shot deer or much else with a .223. Penetration is > marginal at best using heavier bullets, but it would not tear hair and > bounce off or blow up. I’ve seen close to a half dozen mule deer > killed with mostly .222’s and a 22-250. They were shot with the 63 gr > Sierra Semi-spitzer and died quickly without any problems. I must > admit that the shots were placed through the ribs, but if you pick > your shots, it will do the job. The problem is that most people that > would choose the .223 to hunt deer are probably new to deer hunting > and lack the discipline to wait for the perfect shot.
Why do you say that penetration is marginal at best with heavy bullets. Does that mean to suggest that you think light bullets would penetrate better? Is there something mysterious about the .223 that I don’t know? Ken
Response:
writes: -snip > obviously have not shot deer or much else with a .223. Penetration is > marginal at best using heavier bullets, but it would not tear hair and -snip > Why do you say that penetration is marginal at best with heavy bullets. > Does that mean to suggest that you think light bullets would penetrate > better? Is there something mysterious about the .223 that I don’t > know? Ken
I wonder about this too, since my .223 will punch through 1/4" steel plate using FMJ without slowing down. My father uses a .222 with a Remington soft point on whitetails and has no problem with penetration. You have to use a bullet designed for the purpose you intend to use it. Todd Alexander Mechanical Dynamics,Inc Engineering Analyst 2301 Commonwealth Blvd. (810)826-6461 Ann Arbor, MI 48105 "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms…"–Samuel Adams
Response:
writes:
-snip my comment on penetrating steel plate. > Penetrating steel plate with a FMJ bullet is a totally different > dynamic than mushrooming and penetrating flesh. It’s more a mass and > velocity issue than actual bullet performance. Of course, a .223 is
Sorry, I didn’t mean it was the same. That’s why I included the comment to choose a bullet appropriate for the intended use -snip > IMO, it is marginal. If you took a shot, that all too many hunters > choose to take, at the south end of a northbound deer, do you think > the .223 would do anything but maim or cause a lingering death? If
That depends on the bullet type and path it took, which can be said for just about any caliber out there. Also, IMO there is no reason on God’s green earth to take a shot at the south end of a northbound deer. I would let it go with a strict warning for a first time hunter, but any experienced hunter or a repeat offense would leave said person hunting somewhere else. -snip Todd Alexander Mechanical Dynamics,Inc Engineering Analyst 2301 Commonwealth Blvd. (810)826-6461 Ann Arbor, MI 48105 "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms…"–Samuel Adams
Response:
In article >I would rather use a .22 LR than most .223 loads. At >least with the .22 LR you get better penetratin than a >.223 load that is going to…
Hmmm…reckon you ought to tell the DOD that their annointed GI round is not up to par with the 125 year old .22 rimfire for penetration and lethality? Wanna walk into a battle after replacing your M-16 with a 10-22? >(and I know everyone will b***h about this comment) >fragment on impact and blow off a big wad of hair and >not do much else.
A large number of dead 130lbs+ human beings of many nationalities would seem to be a strong argument against such a vapid statement. >Now a .223 load like a Nosler Partition or something >similar might be OK….
Don’t blame the hardware for a software problem. It is bullet placement far more than caliber or bullet type which decides the adequacy of any particular round for any particular situation. It seems unreasonable to advocate a .22-anything for anyone who is less than a very good, very patient shooter. Poor shooting skills and decisions aren’t easily overcome, regardless of the chosen weapon.
Response:
A 223 is enough for any size deer if you can shoot it well enough but you need to do head or neck shots to do it quickly. His neck is just as easy a target as his "vitals". Practice on running rabbits. If you can hit a running rabbit consistantly, you can also hit a deer in the neck. — uco __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ / / / / / / /__ / / /___ -
Response:
I agree with Wayne Phillips comments. Use a hard jacketed soft point projectile; preferably 50 grain (Norma and Lapua are good) and crank it up speed wise. In a .222R I use a 50 grain Norma SP with 25.6 grains of Win 748. If I can’t shoot it I don’t and if I do, it’s dead. > A 223 is enough for any size deer if you can shoot it well enough > but you need to do head or neck shots to do it quickly. His neck > is just as easy a target as his "vitals". Practice on running > rabbits. If you can hit a running rabbit consistantly, you can > also hit a deer in the neck. > —
— > uco __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ / > / / / / / / /__ / / /___
— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> -
Response:
Unable to keep my hands off my PC, I turned it on and discovered that Wayne Phillips had said the following in the group rec.hunting: >A 223 is enough for any size deer if you can shoot it well …snip…
A .223 in not an adequate caliber for deer size game… .22 cal. in any configuration is generally not legally accepted in any state that I am aware for deer size animals and hunters that I know would not use anything smaller than a .243 to hunt deer. … "if you can shoot it well…" is a very broad statement that would be quite difficult to apply… best rule of thumb is don’t use anything smaller than .24 cal. for deer. In fact, I can’t imagine why someone would even want to use a .22 cal. to deer hunt… unless he were lost in the wilderness, had nothing else and was starving… While it is not really possible to use too much gun… it is most definitely possible to use too little gun… Every hunter that I associate with should agree that a responsible hunter would use enough gun to kill quickly and cleanly and not chance losing or wounding the game… and so I repeat, a .22 is not adequate for deer size game… period. I would hope that a new hunter would not read a report condoning .22 for deer and think Bill Marx
Response:
writes: -snip >A 223 is enough for any size deer if you can shoot it well …snip…
You will notice that he said if you can shoot it well, which is very true. > A .223 in not an adequate caliber for deer size game… .22 cal. in any > configuration is > generally not legally accepted in any state that I am aware for deer size > animals and
In MI, you can use any centerfire rifle(in the rifle zones) to take deer, so now you know of one state that .22 cal is leagally accepted. -snip > In fact, I can’t imagine why someone would even want to use a .22 cal. to deer > hunt… > unless he were lost in the wilderness, had nothing else and was starving…
I have used .222 cal, and my father still does. It’s simply a matter of having the gun available for use. I personally prefer my .50 cal muzzleloader, but would have no problem using .223. It comes down to the bullet you use, and your abilitiy to hit your target. -snip > I would hope that a new hunter would not read a report condoning .22 for deer > and think
While it is far from the best choice, and I would never reccommend buying one for use as a deer rifle, if you already have a .22 cal, and it’s legal in your state, there is no need to go out and buy an new rifle. Todd Alexander Mechanical Dynamics,Inc Engineering Analyst 2301 Commonwealth Blvd. (810)826-6461 Ann Arbor, MI 48105 "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms…"–Samuel Adams
Response:
Actually you can use a .22 in OK. And I would shoot a dear with a .223 anyday.
Response:
I would rather use a .22 LR than most .223 loads. At least with the .22 LR you get better penetratin than a .223 load that is going to (and I know everyone will b***h about this comment) fragment on impact and blow off a big wad of hair and not do much else. Now a .223 load like a Nosler Partition or something similar might be OK….
Response:
>I would rather use a .22 LR than most .223 loads. At least with the .22 >LR you get better penetratin than a .223 load that is going to (and I >know everyone will b***h about this comment) fragment on impact and blow >off a big wad of hair and not do much else. Now a .223 load like a >Nosler Partition or something similar might be OK….
A man after my own heart! Tell ‘em Jeremy! Don Z.
Response:
>I would rather use a .22 LR than most .223 loads. At least with the .22 >LR you get better penetratin than a .223 load that is going to (and I >know everyone will b***h about this comment) fragment on impact and blow >off a big wad of hair and not do much else. Now a .223 load like a >Nosler Partition or something similar might be OK….
I agree that the .223 is poor medicine for deer, but…*fragment on impact and blow off a big wad of hair and not do much else*… You obviously have not shot deer or much else with a .223. Penetration is marginal at best using heavier bullets, but it would not tear hair and bounce off or blow up. I’ve seen close to a half dozen mule deer killed with mostly .222’s and a 22-250. They were shot with the 63 gr Sierra Semi-spitzer and died quickly without any problems. I must admit that the shots were placed through the ribs, but if you pick your shots, it will do the job. The problem is that most people that would choose the .223 to hunt deer are probably new to deer hunting and lack the discipline to wait for the perfect shot.
Response:
Unable to keep my hands off my PC, I turned it on and discovered that Todd Alexander had said the following in the group rec.hunting: >In MI, you can use any centerfire rifle(in the rifle zones) to take deer, so >now you know of one state that .22 cal is leagally accepted. >I have used .222 cal, and my father still does. It’s simply a matter of having >the gun available for use. I personally prefer my .50 cal muzzleloader, but >would have no problem using .223. It comes down to the bullet you use, and your >abilitiy to hit your target.
Todd, >writes: >-snip > >A 223 is enough for any size deer if you can shoot it well …snip… >You will notice that he said if you can shoot it well, which is very true.
read closely… the correct statement I made is: "A .223 in not an adequate caliber for deer size game…". The quote you show me saying was made by the fellow I was responding to…. not me. I don’t mind you disagreeing with me… that what these discussions are about… but please quote me correctly. As for one of your statements… >"It comes down to… ’snip’… and your abilitiy to hit your target…."
that is an extremely broad statement and in that lies much of what I am addressing here… A .22 is not adequate for deer size game, period. and as a responsible hunter you should know exactly what I am getting at… I ground hog hunt with a .220 Swift, 6.5-20 scope… and have popped hogs at some rather extreme distances… consistently over the years… I would not (under normal circumstances) attempt to kill a deer with this gun although there are some very impressive loads and bullets available for larger game… it just might not put them down cleanly and I… as many responsible hunters would agree, feel an obligation to the game we hunt… to do the deed in a manner consistent with our best ability and that is the reason for the post… This is not to say that many deer have not and will not continue to be killed with .22 cal. weapons… however, I still maintain that a .22 is just too ‘iffy’… and that is the reason I made these statements and I stand by them. Bill Marx